Would You Be Shocked If....

[Mira]

Poor Thomas turns out not to be the father of Justine's child? Out of his own mouth in the beginning
of Peace talks, while not impossible, it is highly unlikely that he got her pregnant.  Thomas says that White Court Vamps are for the most part sterile... Possible he is the exception because of who is mother was, but is it likely?  He says they were using birth control.. Failure? Possible, but how likely added to the probable low sperm count for Thomas?  Justine was lying about using it? Very likely, but at the same time if Thomas was right about himself, still an outside chance. 

Did HWWBs/Nemesis arrange for the outside chance of Thomas getting pregnant happen? Very likely, Justine/HWWBs/Nemesis admitted as much.  However not said, whether or not Thomas was the father.  It would be much easier for Justine to be unfaithful and get pregnant by a guy with a probable normal sperm count, actually the most logical thing for her to do.  Thomas wasn't going to demand a DNA test, he would just accept it and become worried to the point where he'd do anything to save her. 

Finally, Harry's gut feeling that something was a bit off about Justine when he told her the news about Thomas in the beginning of Peace Talks.. Could it be that her reaction felt off because there was no connection between her child and Thomas, not just the plan.

[Dina]

I would be shocked. Which does not mean it is impossible.

I think Justine just sabotaged her birth control and Thomas did the rest. We know he is powerful and has some magic talent, both things may have increased his chances. Perhaps the outsider made that chances better somehow (if you can cast an entropy a spell you probably can have a lucky spell too).

That said, my main reason to believe that is...wouldn't Thomas be able to feel a demon in Justine?

[Mira]

I would be shocked. Which does not mean it is impossible.

I think Justine just sabotaged her birth control and Thomas did the rest. We know he is powerful and has some magic talent, both things may have increased his chances. Perhaps the outsider made that chances better somehow (if you can cast an entropy a spell you probably can have a lucky spell too).

That said, my main reason to believe that is...wouldn't Thomas be able to feel a demon in Justine?

I don't know, I don't think he stated that he could.  He may not have even tried, because of his shock at learning she was pregnant and his fear for her.  The point is a possessed Justine wouldn't give a flip who the father was, as long as she got pregnant and she'd freely lie to Thomas about it.

[Telynn]

I don't know, I don't think he stated that he could.  He may not have even tried, because of his shock at learning she was pregnant and his fear for her.  The point is a possessed Justine wouldn't give a flip who the father was, as long as she got pregnant and she'd freely lie to Thomas about it.

For that matter, she could be lying about being pregnant.

[Mira]

For that matter, she could be lying about being pregnant.

Yeah, but I don't think she is, at least Harry didn't think so.  He described that she had that "glow" about her aura that says she was.  Unless of course, HWWBs could create an effective illusion of the glow.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

of Peace talks, while not impossible, it is highly unlikely that he got her pregnant.  Thomas says that White Court Vamps are for the most part sterile... Possible he is the exception because of who is mother was, but is it likely?  He says they were using birth control.. Failure? Possible, but how likely added to the probable low sperm count for Thomas?  Justine was lying about using it? Very likely, but at the same time if Thomas was right about himself, still an outside chance.

Possible. Then while whampires are rarely fertile, they are fertile often enough for Lord Raith to concieve multiple daughters and sons, so not that sterile. I mean they pass their vampirism to biological progeny.

[Mira]

Possible. Then while whampires are rarely fertile, they are fertile often enough for Lord Raith to concieve multiple daughters and sons, so not that sterile. I mean they pass their vampirism to biological progeny.

Very true, I had a theory a while back as that being the reason Raith got to be head of the family.  Yet, it is pretty rare, because the family isn't expanding, how long has Lara been around?  Why hasn't she had any kids?  The only vamp we know of that was really young aside from the baby, if Thomas is the father, was Inari. 

[Dina]

I had the (totally unproved) theory that the stronger a vampire, better his chances to conceive. So, Lord Raith, Lara, Thomas would have chances. But I think that woman have even less chances than male, because the baby's demon fights with their own demon. So, its difficult for Lara. Besides, I bet she takes precations. But Thomas had a chance. Lord Raith has lived many centuries, having sex all the time. Even when the probabilities are low, if you do enough attempts you sometimes succeed.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

Very true, I had a theory a while back as that being the reason Raith got to be head of the family.  Yet, it is pretty rare, because the family isn't expanding, how long has Lara been around?  Why hasn't she had any kids?  The only vamp we know of that was really young aside from the baby, if Thomas is the father, was Inari.

I have feeling it's possible only men sire children, as pregnant whampire lady would have problem from two Hungers interacting.

[Mira]

I had the (totally unproved) theory that the stronger a vampire, better his chances to conceive. So, Lord Raith, Lara, Thomas would have chances. But I think that woman have even less chances than male, because the baby's demon fights with their own demon. So, its difficult for Lara. Besides, I bet she takes precations. But Thomas had a chance. Lord Raith has lived many centuries, having sex all the time. Even when the probabilities are low, if you do enough attempts you sometimes succeed.

If Lord Raith is many centuries old and he has only three living kids, that says he is all but sterile.  Though I believe it has also been said that he has killed off any kids that might grow up to be rivils.

[forumghost]

If Lord Raith is many centuries old and he has only three living kids, that says he is all but sterile.  Though I believe it has also been said that he has killed off any kids that might grow up to be rivils.

It's way more then that:

How many sisters does Thomas have?
I can’t find that notebook, grr. I think it’s nine. Papa Raith’s bodyguards minus one who is utterly bonkers and kept more or less in the attic, and Inari, the one who got away.

And those are just the living ones, we know he's killed a few.

[Dina]

I think there are four sisters + Lara + Inari + Thomas. And several boys that were killed so let's say around 12 children in all his years. So yes, his fertility is super low, but not 0.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

There were 9 daughters overall. One son alive. Some others he killed. We can I think round it to about 18.
Still low yes.

[Arjan]

I have feeling it's possible only men sire children, as pregnant whampire lady would have problem from two Hungers interacting.

Lady Malvora is said to hav a child in White Night.

It is probably easier for a woman. She can just feed during pregnancy.

[Wicked Woodpecker of West]

Was he a child? I thought Vittorio was a nephew.