The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
"Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Dina on October 31, 2020, 12:50:09 AM ---I've noticed that there is a moment when Harry has the doubt that Molly had become a monster and he decides to trust her. I wish Carlos did the same. I agree with many of you saying that Carlos had reasons to mistrust, and also about his PTSD but I don't think I ever forgive him for saying the line about the 60000 deaths. Also, for not saying as much as "sorry" about Murphy.
Yes, Carlos is in pain for the other wardens but Harry is too and he is grieving for Murphy. And Carlos just ignored it.
I don't know. Harry definitely could have done things much better with Ramirez, but his insistence in "talk to me" as if he (Ramirez) was not a loyal warden is annoying. He knows how Harry feels about the Council, that is not monster Harry. Is Harry, his friend. Monster Harry would probably be more polite about the WC :)
And again, I don't understand the WC. While he was a warden, Mab was constrained for her respect to Harry's previous commitments. Now, he is free and Mab can use him much more.
Again encore: I need to know if Ramirez knows about Maggie.
--- End quote ---
I agree with all of this. It might be different if we had a couple of Ramirez PoV stories, but from what we know, Carlos doesn't have the sort of secrets Harry does that require him to be extremely careful with what he tells another wizard. And not just because it could get Harry in trouble. I wouldn't tell a friend a secret of mine that could get them in trouble if they kept it or they had some sort of ethical obligation to report without very good reason even if I knew they'd keep the secret.
--- Quote from: Mira on October 31, 2020, 04:48:17 AM ---Harry isn't running with more "shady" people than he was before, unless you call the Alphas shady, two Holy Knights and a retired Holy Knight, and a former cop shady.
--- End quote ---
He is in tighter with shady characters. He did a job with Nic and is Mab's vassal. But I do agree with your overall point that Harry's about as shady as he was when he met Carlos, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. He was the Council renegade who had just recently gotten out from under the Doom and brought a zombie t-rex to the fight the wardens were there for. A fight in which Harry saved the White Council, again.
Harry is a grey character and always has been. That's what Shiro said in his letter.
--- Quote from: Mira on October 31, 2020, 04:48:17 AM ---Yes, communication or lack there of, goodness knows, has gotten Harry in trouble with friends etc before, but not this time. Carlos did communicate quite clearly with that tracking dot, he was telling Harry, "you're a suspect.." When he says, "talk to me.." He is saying, "confess.."
--- End quote ---
I agree with this as far as PT is concerned, but think Harry could have salvaged the relationship by communicating more before PT. It was risky and maybe the right call at the time not to, but it could have worked.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 31, 2020, 05:42:49 AM ---He saw him, Justine and then Lara.
--- End quote ---
Harry's been the Wizard of Chicago for at least 14 years now. Everybody should expect Harry to investigate an attack on the building he lives in. It shouldn't be taken as a sign of guilt for an investigator to talk to shady people in the course of an investigation.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 31, 2020, 05:42:49 AM ---Eb told Dresden that making him the liaison was part of a setup to prevent him to shake some hands, speak with people and go stronger for the general vote. Probably a Black Council setup. And Carlos told him that it has been his own idea.
--- End quote ---
This is the best argument I've seen so far for Carlos being an out and out villain instead of just a pawn or distrusting Harry.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 31, 2020, 10:26:19 AM ---And if the [White Council's] problem [with Harry] is [his relationship with] Mab ...
--- End quote ---
And that's the Councils fault. Harry ended up with Mab because he was owned by Lea. He ended up owned by Lea because of their persecution of his mother, their abandonment of/failure to protect him as a child, their lack of finding out (or handling if they knew) Dumorne was a bad egg at least a decade before Harry was born. Then they force Harry to work with Mab in SK and don't support Harry in his hour of need (Changes).
Mira:
--- Quote ---I agree with this as far as PT is concerned, but think Harry could have salvaged the relationship by communicating more before PT. It was risky and maybe the right call at the time not to, but it could have worked.
--- End quote ---
Should ah, could ah... But Carlos was apparently in the hospital, Harry was busy with Maggie and Murphy, not a good climate to talk.
Dina:
I agree, Bad Alias. And it is interesting what you say about not telling your friends things that could make them in trouble. That is typical Harry behaviour
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 02, 2020, 09:49:14 PM ---Should ah, could ah... But Carlos was apparently in the hospital, Harry was busy with Maggie and Murphy, not a good climate to talk.
--- End quote ---
In the hospital. Did he even send a card? You would think so but for some reason I doubt it.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on November 03, 2020, 07:28:59 AM ---In the hospital. Did he even send a card? You would think so but for some reason I doubt it.
--- End quote ---
But while that was going on, wasn't Harry incommunicado on the island for a year? If it is true
that this all happened early in Molly's term.
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