The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
"Talk To Me..." Had Carlos Already Drank the Kool-Aid?
TheCuriousFan:
--- Quote from: forumghost on October 31, 2020, 12:58:51 AM ---I kinda feel like he did that with Molly, and almost got his spine ripped out for his trouble.
Like, Carlos was being an irrational idiot and lashing out at the end of BG. But you know what? Harry fucking deserved it.
He gave him a chance to try and assuage some doubts outside Lara's in PT, and when Ramirez asked a very reasonable "tell us who you slept with so that we can confirm you aren't Being enthralled by the White Court"
Harry immediately responds by telling him to go fuck himself, and then begins grounding his staff and readying his shield.
Then Harry is seen being buddy-buddy with Lara, and even sleeping with her.
Then he attack Ramirez about 5 seconds before the Peace Talks go to hell.
Then he disappears right before the fight and refuses to tell anyone where he went.
Like, Harry couldn't have acted more suspicious if he was actively trying.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much, that repetition of Carlos trying to talk to Harry is probably intended to signify that Harry's fucking up in how he deals with Carlos.
Dina:
Yes, Mira. On the beach, it sounded like Ramirez were saying "The old people in the Council mistrusts you but we youngsters know you, have you back and I want you on my team". And then, Harry found about the dot and translated all that to "The old people in the Council mistrusts you and they may be right, so I want you on my team so I can have you under surveillance". And things were down from there.
I do blame Harry for part of that, but not for all. For instance, let's go to that first day. They know Thomas is a friend of Harry, from before he became the WK. They know what he did to Etri (Austri, in fact). He saw him, Justine and then Lara. All that says that he is trying to help Thomas. But before Thomas did that, Harry was at his house, spoke with Eb (which Ramirez may or not know) and then spend all the day at Murphy's place. So...perhaps sex with Lara is not your first idea? Perhaps he had sex with Murph? Perhaps he was to visit Lara not for sex but for finding a way to help his friend? Because Harry helps his friends.
Writing this, I was reminded of another thing. Eb told Dresden that making him the liaison was part of a setup to prevent him to shake some hands, speak with people and go stronger for the general vote. Probably a Black Council setup. And Carlos told him that it has been his own idea. So Harry had reason to be wary from him before Thomas killed people, before Lara had been granted wishes and before the 4 wardens ambushed him. Yes, Harry is not the most gentle character but I understand raising his temper. And his suspicion that perhaps not Ramirez himself but someone may be pulling his strings.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: TheCuriousFan on October 31, 2020, 05:30:45 AM ---Pretty much, that repetition of Carlos trying to talk to Harry is probably intended to signify that Harry's fucking up in how he deals with Carlos.
--- End quote ---
in line with my earlier comment... Didn't he deny Carlos 3 times? Once on the beach, once in the road and again in the stairwell?
Dina:
Yes.
I've been thinking. What exactly is the Council problem by the time of the tracking device (before Thomas attack)? I mean, why they intend to separate him from the Council? He has been friends with Thomas for ages, and nobody said too much. That has not got worse (between Murphy and Maggie I don't think he has been all the time with Thomas). He has not been visiting Lara everyday or anything. He had been spending time with Murphy, a trustworthy vanilla. And yes, he is the WK but he has been the WK since Changes, and yes, he went back from the death, but that was in CD. What got worse in the last couple of months, between SG and PT?
So, if the problem is his links with the White Court, there are as bad as ever, not worse. And if the problem is Mab, as I said before, breaking his links with the Council gives HER the freedom to do things with Harry that she couldn't before. So, I have a suspicion, that the real problem is that they discovered that he has the objects and he is taking true control of Demonreach. All the rest are excuses.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Dina on October 31, 2020, 10:26:19 AM ---Yes.
I've been thinking. What exactly is the Council problem by the time of the tracking device (before Thomas attack)? I mean, why they intend to separate him from the Council? He has been friends with Thomas for ages, and nobody said too much. That has not got worse (between Murphy and Maggie I don't think he has been all the time with Thomas). He has not been visiting Lara everyday or anything. He had been spending time with Murphy, a trustworthy vanilla. And yes, he is the WK but he has been the WK since Changes, and yes, he went back from the death, but that was in CD. What got worse in the last couple of months, between SG and PT?
So, if the problem is his links with the White Court, there are as bad as ever, not worse. And if the problem is Mab, as I said before, breaking his links with the Council gives HER the freedom to do things with Harry that she couldn't before. So, I have a suspicion, that the real problem is that they discovered that he has the objects and he is taking true control of Demonreach. All the rest are excuses.
--- End quote ---
Yes, the only one from the White Court Harry has been seeing on a regular basis is Thomas, but they knew that. The thing about the beach conversation is while you could be right about what Carlos was implying about the Council, why did he think he had to imply? It was just he and Harry, Thomas went to one side because it was Warden business, and I imagine if he wanted there was a way to keep Thomas from hearing what was said. The only vibe I got from the conversation is it didn't go beyond the usual suspicions that some on the Senior Council have had about Harry since he became a wizard, so why would Harry suddenly be alarmed or alerted? I don't think they know about the objects or shouldn't know, unless... Oh my, Carlos has a coin, knows at least about the Grail and what that mission was about.
--- Quote ---in line with my earlier comment... Didn't he deny Carlos 3 times? Once on the beach, once in the road and again in the stairwell?
--- End quote ---
On the beach Carlos never really asks that question, it is all very friendly. On the road after Harry found out about the dot, he wasn't going to have any friendly chat with Carlos. The only way that might have happened is if Carlos had said he was sorry for doing that to a friend, but he had orders from X,Y,orZ to do it. In the stairwell, not a time to talk, too much going down.
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