The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
When did LtW join the White Council?
Mira:
--- Quote from: SerScot on October 29, 2020, 01:58:30 PM ---No.
If “wizards have a way to communicate with one anothet that individual cultures lack” why are wizards in the current day having trouble getting to talented kids before they abuse their power? The two ideas do not gel. The WC had to start at some point. It had to start in some place and at some time. It could not have been some collective action from all human magic users on Earth because, we know, there is no way to contact every human magic user on Earth in the present day Dresdenverse.
--- End quote ---
It does work, because even today there are wizards, Elaine and Mort to name a couple that can keep off the radar and not join the White Council. So do you think that is a new thing?
SerScot:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 29, 2020, 02:38:25 PM ---It does work, because even today there are wizards, Elaine and Mort to name a couple that can keep off the radar and not join the White Council. So do you think that is a new thing?
--- End quote ---
You’re missing my point. The WC could not have started wholisticly across the planet. It started in one place and grew. How did that happen?
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 29, 2020, 03:14:12 AM ---That isn't the feeling I got, the sense I got is he fought hard and still saw his people suffering. He had to come to the realization that it was a lost cause and learn to deal with his anger. This is what he wanted to help Harry with, dealing with his anger because it is so self destructive.
--- End quote ---
Turn Coat, Ch. 15:
--- Quote ---Once, I watched the tribe I was expected to guide and protect be destroyed, Harry Dresden. I did so because my principles held that it was wrong for the Council or its members to involve itself in manipulating the politics of mortals. I watched and restrained myself, until it was too late for me to make a difference. When I did that, I chose who would live and who would di. My people died for my principles.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: SerScot on October 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM ---Do we see any other Native American wizards on the White Council? I wonder when the White Council sought to reach out to Native Wizards? Did they have contact with the Americas before major European colonization was under way or were they surprised to discover other users of Human Magic in the Americas?
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I haven't noticed any. With the amount of contact Harry has with the Council, we're not going to get anything close to a representative sample size of it. We do have a hint of another indigenous to the Americas wizard. Carlos's gear has Mesoamerican markings. Carlos isn't a Latino. He's a "Spaniard by way of California." I don't know why he would choose Mesoamerican instead of something more European. I always assumed it was something his master taught him. This would imply, at least a little bit, that his teacher was indigenous.
I think the White Council discovered the New World at the same time other Europeans did, but there probably exceptions. Maybe some Norse wizards knew about it when the Vikings did. Merlin definitely made his way to Lake Michigan. The reason I think this is because LtW was expected to protect and guide his people. He could have just been expected to be their chief, but I think he was expected to be their shaman.
--- Quote from: SerScot on October 29, 2020, 12:04:36 PM ---Let’s go further, if the WC was established during the Roman Empire how did it it assert control over non-Roman human magic users? Was it conquest? Were Wardens out slaughtering Chinese, Indian, Native American, and Sub-saharan African wizards while Augustus ruled in Rome?
I’m now very curious about how the WC came to assert political control over the Human use of magic and why non-European “wizards” just accepted their hegemony?
--- End quote ---
I'm fairly certain it's been said, either in the books or by Jim directly, that an organization of wizards has "always" existed in one form or another. I'd interpret always as it's origins are so remote as to be lost to history, not literally since the beginning of creation. Merlin just rearranged things and put down the 7 Laws. If black magic had always been a thing and most practitioners had always agreed it wasn't good, it wouldn't take much for Merlin to get everyone on board for an organization that's primary purposes were to prevent black magic and to keep wizards out of politics. Merlin had to be extraordinarily impressive.
China and Rome knew of each other's existence. I'd imagine that wizards, at least the more adventurous ones, had traveled back and forth. The wizards from various cultures had a somewhat equal representation in the Council. So there was almost certainly Eastern/Western communication going on before Merlin set up the White Council.
I doubt it had a European hegemony. The Council is a direct democracy when the Senior Council doesn't take up an issue like they did in Summer Knight. (Caveat: I'm sure there are executive and judicial functions, especially routine ones, that the whole Council doesn't get a direct say in). The most Western things about the Council are Latin and it's democratic aspects. Why did the White Council tilt that way? Merlin was the most powerful wizard we've ever heard of. The next most powerful is Kemmler. His necromancy may have been impressive, but it was simple according to Grevane. Merlin's was the internal combustion engine compared to the wheel. Merlin's power alone was probably enough to establish the White Council if he was willing to give everyone a seat at the table.
The_Sibelis:
I always figured though numbers were sparse. The WC was never limited by continents. They've always had access to the ways. And they seem to have methods for finding those who are actually doing black magic, sensing it.. so I can't imagine them not coming to the america's and putting the wizards they found there under their collective thumbs on following the laws. Though when that actually happened could be argued..
*The existence of DR is a good point. They'd have known about it for far longer than simply when the america's were colonized. Things like Merlin's journals, people like the gatekeeper. America's existence couldn't have been entirely unknown to to the council, specifically at the higher echelons.
Bad Alias:
About the Ways. The wizards would have to know about them or just be exploring. Merlin could have gone to Demonreach without having gone anywhere else in the Americas and so could successor Wardens.
I'm 50/50 on whether or not they knew about the Americas and the Wizards of the Americas knew about them.
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