The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???

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Mira:

--- Quote from: Arjan on October 23, 2020, 04:46:02 AM ---I think an infection in this context is just that part of nemesis spiritual essence is contaminating the hosts essence just like a denarian shadow can be seen as an denarian infection.

It was part of Lasciel in Harry. Harry managed to give that part a seperate identity and it became Lash, he severed the connection with Lasciel.

The nemesis infective essence keeps being nemesis and can be used to channel the rest of nemesis. To influence the host or to be used as an entrance for total possession. So an infection is managed by the rest of nemesis and a possessed host can speak for the whole.

Like the other multi instance beings the individual instances become weaker if they are spread too thin and stronger if they get together. That gives a limit to the infection but not a hard number.

--- End quote ---

That makes sense.  We don't know about Aurora, what kind of Summer Lady she was. But we do know about Maeve, her "mommy issues" and other frustration that left her vulnerable to infestation. Likewise Lea, and I wrote a thread about it a while back after rereading Grave Peril, that Lea seemed infected before she ever came in contact with the Knife.  She may not have been but there was an air of discontent about her and in fact a hunger for power that made her vulnerable.  I think it also interesting that none of the above were actually possessed by an Outsider, maybe because it would be too easy to detect.

Arjan:

--- Quote from: Mira on October 23, 2020, 05:04:24 AM ---That makes sense.  We don't know about Aurora, what kind of Summer Lady she was. But we do know about Maeve, her "mommy issues" and other frustration that left her vulnerable to infestation. Likewise Lea, and I wrote a thread about it a while back after rereading Grave Peril, that Lea seemed infected before she ever came in contact with the Knife.  She may not have been but there was an air of discontent about her and in fact a hunger for power that made her vulnerable.  I think it also interesting that none of the above were actually possessed by an Outsider, maybe because it would be too easy to detect.

--- End quote ---
Mab stated clearly that it was the knife that infected Lea and the knife was given to her by the red court, a treacherous gift she called it herself confirming what Mab said. The knife had power and I think that power contained part of the power of nemesis.

I think the infection came when she used the power of the knife in grave peril.

The_Sibelis:
I was thinking Nemesis has the choice between changing something and actively possessing it? Like say, she altered Sith, but since those alterations weren't enough in the face of Harry's confrontation it had to overwhelm Sith to stay active in him and not allow Harry to change him back? So anything she altered she COULD possess, but doesn't not have to actively be present at all times?
The outsiders vs walker difference is kinda odd... Maybe Walkers are not necessarily always outsiders? I mean, HWWBH has ritual spells that summon him for magical effects.. not just some spell, but an actual ritual, a rite. That's always seemed odd to me if he's supposed to be an outsider. So Nemesis is an outsider.. with the ability to walk the paths back to people to possess? Which is kinda different than a regular outsider... Idk for sure.
Alot of the stuff introduced in PT/BG has challenged our understanding of the DF metaphysics/lore, and those changes have not been fully fleshed out for our understanding..

Mira:

--- Quote ---The outsiders vs walker difference is kinda odd... Maybe Walkers are not necessarily always outsiders? I mean, HWWBH has ritual spells that summon him for magical effects.. not just some spell, but an actual ritual, a rite. That's always seemed odd to me if he's supposed to be an outsider. So Nemesis is an outsider.. with the ability to walk the paths back to people to possess? Which is kinda different than a regular outsider... Idk for sure.
--- End quote ---

Oh my, I didn't think of that! :o More confusion.. 

Arjan:
Walkers are a subset of outsiders.

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