The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Anyone Else Surprised or Disappointed That Harry
morriswalters:
I'm unsure why Jim wasted his time on Ghost Story.
--- Quote from: Chapter 10 Changes ---I growled as a column of pure rage rose up my spine and made my voice rough. “I will make Maggie safe. If the world burns because of that, then so be it. Me and the kid will roast some marshmallows.”
--- End quote ---
Which is well before he breaks his back and the fallen monkey with him. Pretty clearly Jim is signalling that Harry would do anything including throwing Molly under the bus. And Jim has Uriel spell it out in Ghost Story.
--- Quote from: Uriel in Ghost Story ---“I believe that when you went after your daughter, you said something about letting the world burn. That you and your daughter would roast marshmallows.” I nodded bleakly. “It is one thing for you to say, ‘Let the world burn.’ It is another to say, ‘Let Molly burn.’ The difference is all in the name.”
Butcher, Jim. Ghost Story (The Dresden Files, Book 13) (p. 555). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
An Ethicist might question Molly's ability to give informed consent given the power differential between them. Since he was her teacher and her crush. And the fact that his friends shielded her wouldn't have changed the fact that the threat would have always been there. Mab sums it up in Cold Days
--- Quote from: Mab to Harry in Cold Days ---“Consider,” Mab said, “that I have done something for her that you never could have.” “What’s that, exactly?”
“I have put her beyond the reach of the White Council and their Wardens,” Mab said, again as if explaining something to an idiot. “While they might howl and lecture as much as they wish about an apprentice wizard, they can do nothing at all to the Winter Lady.” I took a deep breath. That . . . was also true.
Butcher, Jim. Cold Days (The Dresden Files, Book 14) (p. 511). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
--- End quote ---
And I'm gone.
Dina:
As I said, I don't reread Cold Days. But I do understand Harry impulse of suicide and I don't think he is a bad person for that.
And how would Harry know that Ivy would know? I still don't know how she knows. I don't believe Harry wrote his plan. Even then, Kinkaid was his best option.
Molly entered the mind of Harry, who was willing to do it. Harry did not invade her mind. And I don't think Harry thought the White Council will kill her for that.
And morris, I wish JB hadn't wasted his time in GS indeed. But I do remember Harry realized then (in GS, talking with Uriel as you said) that he had been wrong in thinking "let the world burn". That is when I realized he was not the monster I thought (I was so angry at him I almost stopped reading with that sentence). But He has been hurt and scared. Then he realized his mistake.
StrayDog:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 11, 2020, 04:55:05 AM ---Suicides don't think things through, they cannot see beyond their own pain. They may think they are thinking things though, but their judgement is clouded by their severe emotional pain. Harry's thinking here cannot be seen as rational, because it wasn't because in that moment his mind was very sick and to make matters worse there was one of the Fallen cheering him on to guarantee he'd do the job.
--- End quote ---
... and thereby incapable for giving consent. The whole point of GS was to show Harry that he was pushed by the Fallen's words, his free will was compromised. No free will, no consent. If this was all so above reproach then why did Molly have so much mental damage directly related to the invasion? Mab complements Harry on the fantastic job he did of binding Molly to his will, so how did Molly have reasonable free will enough to give consent? The Fallen's words pushed Harry to kill himself, they didn't push him to a) plan a deception so Harry can get more power b) use that power to rescue his child c) plan killing himself in a way that hurts two of his most loved people.
@morriswalters I upvote your reply 1,000
morriswalters:
@Dina
Ghost Story isn't on my list of favorites either. Cold Days pretty much ended the series for me. It tied up a lot of loose ends from the first half of the books. And I can't get too vested going forward since I don't think I can get to the end. There's a really good book inside Peace Talks and Battle Ground but it's buried under a lot of dross.
Dina:
Oh, my problem began with Changes and the brat. I simply cannot love the books as much as I loved them before she entered on Harry's life. CD and GS were not bad books per se, I just couldn't gather the will to reread them.
Straydog, you contradict yourself. Harry was push to kill himself, that is where his free will was taken. But, as you say, the way he chose to do that was his own choosing, free will. So he gave his consent to Molly. And she was so guilty because a) she is extremely sensitive b) she CHOSE to help Harry. If her own free will has been taken, she wouldn't have any reason to feel guilty. She knows she helps to Harry getting killed and of course that hurts her.
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