The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Anyone Else Surprised or Disappointed That Harry
Mira:
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Harry asked Molly to use Neuromancy KNOWING that it will harm her, KNOWING that it violated her probation, KNOWING that his death also means hers, KNOWING that she loves him and this will TEAR HER UP inside yet that's his first choice. He chooses Murphy's mantoy, Ivy's only other "family" member as the tool. I was kind of hoping Ivy would tell him where he could go and what he could do with himself when he got there. Molly deserves SO much better then Harry too.
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The point is, he asked her, she agreed, her choice, she was an adult at the time. When was Kincaid ever Murphy's mantoy?
--- Quote ---1) I have been discussed for year that "you don't invade the mind of others" is not the same as "you cannot enter in another's mind if they are willing". So, I don't think that violated her probation.
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Yes, and they had been violating that law for some time with their mental sparing.. If they hadn't done that the Corpsetaker would have had Molly's body.
--- Quote ---2) Molly would be seriously hurt (specially being as sensitive as she is), sad and guilty, but Harry was in a place too dark to realize that. It is not uncommon for suicides in the real world to seriously understimate their importance in other people's lives. I don't think that make them bad people, only too damaged.
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Very wise, and very true, a suicide really isn't responsible for his or her actions, they cannot see beyond their own acute pain.
--- Quote ---3) He did not know that Ivy would know that Kinkaid was involved. How many people do you think Harry could have used instead?
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No, the reason he had Molly wipe his mind in the first place was so Mab wouldn't be tipped off and stop him. Apparently he misjudged because Ivy got the message, insisted on a chest shot, possible chance for survival, instead of a head shot, no chance for survival, and possibly tipped off Mab because she was waiting in the water with open arms.
--- Quote ---4) Harry is a very traumathized man who is trying who do his best. Molly is an actual warlock who is also trying to do her best. I don't think she is so much deserving that him.
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Indeed.
StrayDog:
--- Quote from: Dina on October 11, 2020, 01:57:12 AM ---"his death also means hers". What? It is clear that is was not what happened. Also
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He would have to possess clairvoyance at the time to know Carlos would slow walk the order to execute but the Council did order her execution because of Harry's death.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 11, 2020, 01:57:12 AM ---1) I have been discussed for year that "you don't invade the mind of others" is not the same as "you cannot enter in another's mind if they are willing". So, I don't think that violated her probation.
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Given that Molly only looked around in a mind and that was enough for Morgan, even though in the end he didn't report it. Do you think that the Council would hesitate to kill them both for ANY reason?
--- Quote from: Dina on October 11, 2020, 01:57:12 AM ---2) Molly would be seriously hurt (specially being as sensitive as she is), sad and guilty, but Harry was in a place too dark to realize that. It is not uncommon for suicides in the real world to seriously understimate their importance in other people's lives. I don't think that make them bad people, only too damaged.
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Finding out a loved on has committed suicide is not the same as having to help them commit suicide.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 11, 2020, 01:57:12 AM ---3) He did not know that Ivy would know that Kinkaid was involved. How many people do you think Harry could have used instead?
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He knows that Ivy is the Archive, he knows that she knows. He even stated that he had a second option, his now bride-to-be Lara.
--- Quote from: Dina on October 11, 2020, 01:57:12 AM ---4) Harry is a very traumathized man who is trying who do his best. Molly is an actual warlock who is also trying to do her best. I don't think she is so much deserving that him.
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I will politely agree to disagree.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 11, 2020, 04:35:17 AM ---The point is, he asked her, she agreed, her choice, she was an adult at the time. When was Kincaid ever Murphy's mantoy?
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Dead beat. Harry took care of the plants while Murphy and Kincaid went to Hawaï.
--- Quote --- Yes, and they had been violating that law for some time with their mental sparing.. If they hadn't done that the Corpsetaker would have had Molly's body.
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They were not. The sparring was not an invasion. The mutual consent is what makes the difference.
--- Quote ---Very wise, and very true, a suicide really isn't responsible for his or her actions, they cannot see beyond their own acute pain.No, the reason he had Molly wipe his mind in the first place was so Mab wouldn't be tipped off and stop him. Apparently he misjudged because Ivy got the message, insisted on a chest shot, possible chance for survival, instead of a head shot, no chance for survival, and possibly tipped off Mab because she was waiting in the water with open arms.Indeed.
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Mira:
--- Quote ---He would have to possess clairvoyance at the time to know Carlos would slow walk the order to execute but the Council did order her execution because of Harry's death.
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Suicides don't think things through, they cannot see beyond their own pain. They may think they are thinking things though, but their judgement is clouded by their severe emotional pain. Harry's thinking here cannot be seen as rational, because it wasn't because in that moment his mind was very sick and to make matters worse there was one of the Fallen cheering him on to guarantee he'd do the job.
--- Quote ---They were not. The sparring was not an invasion. The mutual consent is what makes the difference.
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So it was when Harry suicided..
--- Quote ---Dead beat. Harry took care of the plants while Murphy and Kincaid went to Hawaï.
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Oh right, forgot about that, but all the same I wouldn't call Kincaid Murphy's mantoy.. Any more than she was his girltoy.. That is totally disrespectful to both, who were adults, and enjoyed each other's company for a time.
StrayDog:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 11, 2020, 04:55:05 AM ---Suicides don't think things through, they cannot see beyond their own pain. They may think they are thinking things though, but their judgement is clouded by their severe emotional pain. Harry's thinking here cannot be seen as rational, because it wasn't because in that moment his mind was very sick ...
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Which is arguing my point actually
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