The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
morriswalters:
Death is becoming absolutely meaningless in the Dresdenverse. If Murphy can come back, why not Susan. And why have a mushy funeral for Murphy, since she isn't dead. She got drafted into the Foreign Legion. And they took the body to boot.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: bigdangmoose on October 03, 2020, 12:45:21 PM ---Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.
--- End quote ---
We have a dualistic worldview here, there is a material and an immaterial part of you. Your body can be in coma but if your soul and spirit are gone you are dead.
Your body can be in prime health but without the immaterial parts, spirit and soul, it is just dead matter. Mab and demonreach and the parasite were just keeping the body alive but Harry was dead.
Then were was his soul? together with his spirit wandering around on a task for Uriel (ultimately for himself but that is Uriel as we know him)
He was in afterlife. Just not beyond reach.
A ghost is simply a part of your spirit you leave behind when you go on. A shade is you when you refuse to go on and somehow nobody claims you like what happened with Karen. Spirit and soul together. Still free will but dead.
You could say that Harry was a ghost with a soul. It is just not how we usually look at it but it is as logical as a body with or without a soul.
There is a few lines from a beowulf translation I remember:
He saw in the hall, all huddled together.
The heroes asleep, then laugh in his heart.
The hideous foe, he hoped ere dawn.
To sunder body and soul of each.
That is the worldview. In that worldview when someone is on coma and life support the important question is:
Is his soul still there? If so you keep the life support running, if not you can pull the plug.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Nope, more of a coma. And he wasn't a ghost, he was him, soul and all walking around. Bob even said so in their talk to save Forthill.
--- End quote ---
Also Mab said that it is a spectrum, there is a point where one cannot return, Harry never got to that point. It wasn't just Bob that said he wasn't a ghost, it was Morty as well, and he should know.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: bigdangmoose on October 03, 2020, 01:09:38 PM ---I do see your point about that. But because it's the Dresden Files, it makes it a gray area. He would have been alive because of Mab, but Uriel pulled him out before she could claim him. Mab kept him alive with help. So his body never died, he was never a ghost, that there is a claim that he was just in a coma. But with your point, it could be claimed that he died. That's why it's a gray area
--- End quote ---
Right -- dead, but not gone.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on October 03, 2020, 01:29:53 PM ---Death is becoming absolutely meaningless in the Dresdenverse. If Murphy can come back, why not Susan. And why have a mushy funeral for Murphy, since she isn't dead. She got drafted into the Foreign Legion. And they took the body to boot.
--- End quote ---
She's dead. Harry can attest, the soul was gone. And -- to anyone's knowledge -- she isn't coming back. Gard ought to be an authority on that subject. Nobody who knew and loved her in life is ever going to see her again. Heck, you could interpret Gard's comments (specifically, that Murphy has "earned her rest") to mean she's not even going to be active and conscious for a while, either.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 03, 2020, 02:45:45 PM ---Also Mab said that it is a spectrum, there is a point where one cannot return, Harry never got to that point. It wasn't just Bob that said he wasn't a ghost, it was Morty as well, and he should know.
--- End quote ---
He was not just a ghost, depending how you look at it. Words are not always used that precisely in the books partially because “Shade Story” just does not ring well and partly because as morty said even the ghost/shade itself does not always know. but the similarities are so big that it took Marty quite some time to figure it out if he ever did. His words at the end were not that clear.
Of course by now it is quite clear. A pity we never heard them talking shop after his return.
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