The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy (BG spoilers) (also some thoughts on the book overall)
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 03, 2020, 03:02:43 PM ---He was not just a ghost, depending how you look at it. Words are not always used that precisely in the books partially because “Shade Story” just does not ring well and partly because as morty said even the ghost/shade itself does not always know. but the similarities are so big that it took Marty quite some time to figure it out if he ever did. His words at the end were not that clear.
Of course by now it is quite clear. A pity we never heard them talking shop after his return.
--- End quote ---
Actually, if you read carefully, Ghost Story, it is clear that Harry wasn't dead, he wasn't a ghost.. His soul was allowed to wander about, which was a huge risk that Uriel was willing to take to teach him a less on, and Mab wasn't, but couldn't fight Uriel on the subject... Besides if Harry was all dead there wouldn't have been any need for Alfred's I.V., or the parasite's blood circulation job, or Mab doing the lungs or whatever other support she was doing. It would have been pointless if he were all dead.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 03, 2020, 06:30:15 PM ---Actually, if you read carefully, Ghost Story, it is clear that Harry wasn't dead, he wasn't a ghost.. His soul was allowed to wander about, which was a huge risk that Uriel was willing to take to teach him a less on, and Mab wasn't, but couldn't fight Uriel on the subject... Besides if Harry was all dead there wouldn't have been any need for Alfred's I.V., or the parasite's blood circulation job, or Mab doing the lungs or whatever other support she was doing. It would have been pointless if he were all dead.
--- End quote ---
Everyone in the series said he was dead, he just had a chance to return, that is all.
And yes if you read ghost story carefully or even not that carefully it is clear what the differences are. The ability to enter a church for example is telling.
But his soul was not wandering around completely naked. He had his spiritual power with him and that could be reduced as happened in the story. That spiritual power is the same stuff ghosts are made of which explains the similarities:
--- Quote ---I folded my arms. “What if I dig the ghost routine?”
“You don’t,” Uriel replied. “But even if you did, I would point out to you that your spiritual essence has been all but disintegrated. You would not last long as a shade, nor would you have the strength to aid and protect your loved ones. Should you lose your sanity, you might even become a danger to them—but if that is your desire, I can facilitate it.”
--- End quote ---
A clear foreshadowing for his later plans. Mark that Harry is talking about the Ghost routine, not the shade routine but you could say that Uriel is correcting him.
Or Shade is just ghost + soul
kel0700:
Harry was dead, uriel didn't just snatch Harry's soul out of his living body, angels aren't allowed to do that. Uriel had to wait till Harry was dead and then take the soul, before mab could get to it. Mab then had to repair the body and keep it functioning until uriel was done.
That's why uriel was allowed to offer Harry the chance to stay in the afterlife and work for him, an angel couldn't do that to a mortal who's alive. Once Harry made his choice it allowed mab to put Harry's soul in his body.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on October 03, 2020, 11:56:22 AM ---Harry has already died see Ghost Story, it’s not his fault it didn’t take, and he has been chosen by Gard. If anyone can get in Harry can. He just needs to concentrate on how he felt dead when opening the portal.
--- End quote ---
He also died at least once in Grave Peril. I say twice.
He was dead enough in Ghost Story for it to have significant metaphysical impact. I can't remember if it was Odin, the Gatekeeper, or both who went on about it in Cold Days.
--- Quote from: kel0700 on October 03, 2020, 06:44:06 PM ---Harry was dead, uriel didn't just snatch Harry's soul out of his living body, angels aren't allowed to do that.
--- End quote ---
Uriel wasn't even allowed to help Thomas because Thomas was still alive. Because he was still alive, he still had choice.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: kel0700 on October 03, 2020, 06:44:06 PM ---Harry was dead, uriel didn't just snatch Harry's soul out of his living body, angels aren't allowed to do that. Uriel had to wait till Harry was dead and then take the soul, before mab could get to it. Mab then had to repair the body and keep it functioning until uriel was done.
That's why uriel was allowed to offer Harry the chance to stay in the afterlife and work for him, an angel couldn't do that to a mortal who's alive. Once Harry made his choice it allowed mab to put Harry's soul in his body.
--- End quote ---
There might have been some negotiation between Uriel and Mab about Harry just as there might have been some negotiation between Uriel and Vadderung about Murphy.
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