The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Vadderung
Arjan:
The tales we have were already distorted by Christianity especially in how to interpret the stories. The people who wrote them down were already alien to the old way of thinking.
But the old gods were not good or evil, they were both because reality is both. The idea of an all good god is relatively new and introduced in Christianity.
Yuillegan:
I am not saying that Vadderung is out and out Evil. But he was far harsher, more mercurial and more frightening.
But some were viewed as pure evil, and some as purely good. It all depends on which god, which tale, what time period it originated and even when it was eventually found.
Many gods change their stripes and natures through history. Set was once the defender of Ra and a prominent god. But when the priests and religions of upper and lower Egypt clashed, the stronger cults set the story and Set became a god of chaos and storms. Often this is the way and many of those old stories about a clash between old gods and the new represent a shift in beliefs as new religions pushed out the worship of the old ones. Forever that will be the way.
I would argue that an all good is actually a pretty old idea. What has changed is the definition and values associated with being good.
Even Christianity has changed. The god of the old testament is much harsher than the god of the new.
Sibelis - I get what you're saying, but it isn't actually stated that Vadderung causes the storm. It's mostly inferred by some readers but not even necessarily implied by Jim. It also isn't strange to see God's control things outside their various domains/portfolios. I can't find the quote now but basically it says Thor plays college football and changes teams every few years (and I assume has a new identity).
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Yuillegan on July 29, 2020, 07:44:51 AM ---I am not saying that Vadderung is out and out Evil. But he was far harsher, more mercurial and more frightening.
But some were viewed as pure evil,
--- End quote ---
They were rarely worshipped by those who saw them as purely evil.
--- Quote ---and some as purely good.
--- End quote ---
Maybe you can find one but I doubt it. In their stories they had all their moments.
And even being seen as good is quite different from being seen as all good.
--- Quote ---It all depends on which god, which tale, what time period it originated and even when it was eventually found.
Many gods change their stripes and natures through history. Set was once the defender of Ra and a prominent god. But when the priests and religions of upper and lower Egypt clashed, the stronger cults set the story and Set became a god of chaos and storms. Often this is the way and many of those old stories about a clash between old gods and the new represent a shift in beliefs as new religions pushed out the worship of the old ones. Forever that will be the way.
I would argue that an all good is actually a pretty old idea. What has changed is the definition and values associated with being good.
--- End quote ---
Greek and Norse gods had specific human flaws probably because they were seen as universal flaws.
They still defended earth against monsters.
--- Quote ---Even Christianity has changed. The god of the old testament is much harsher than the god of the new.
--- End quote ---
The god of the Old Testament is only the Christian god in the eyes of the Christians. Historically there is a break and Greek thoughts were blended with Jewish thoughts to create Christianity. It is false to say Christianity has changed, Christianity was new.
The_Sibelis:
@Yuillegan...... You know... Everyone always harps on Jim Lies... But I've never truly believed it until just now... I think this might be an actual lie... You realize, Vadderung is described literally as looking like someone who used to play college football? Like, not just football, not just sports, but college football?!?
This just leaves me in a state of sheer disbelief, towards catching an actual possible lie...
Bacail:
I believe that Odin is Odin. Remember that he also holds the Mantle of Santa Claus.
"Wodan's role during the Yuletide period has been theorized as having influenced concepts of St. Nicholas in a variety of facets, including his long white beard and his gray horse for nightly rides (compare Odin's horse Sleipnir) or his reindeer in North American tradition.[27] Folklorist Margaret Baker maintains that "the appearance of Santa Claus or Father Christmas, whose day is the 25th of December, owes much to Odin, the old blue-hooded, cloaked, white-bearded Giftbringer of the north, who rode the midwinter sky on his eight-footed steed Sleipnir, visiting his people with gifts. Odin, transformed into Father Christmas, then Santa Claus, prospered with St Nicholas and the Christchild, became a leading player on the Christmas stage.""
I dont think Thor could hold that mantle because it's something that is intrinsically Odin.
As for Odin looking somewhat sinister, remember that he was across the hall from Ferrovax. In Odin's minds, i'm sure he was eyeballing that Wyrm like he wanted to cut him up and roast him on a spit.
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