The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Peace Talks: Who are the signatories of the Accords?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Con on June 06, 2020, 04:36:53 AM --- Part of the Black Court weaknessess in addition to everyone knowing how to kill them, WOJ is that they power up by killing. The smart ones wait for Plagues and Wars to power up ...
--- End quote ---
Well then, they should be fine...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Con on June 06, 2020, 04:36:53 AM ---Part of the Black Court weaknessess in addition to everyone knowing how to kill them, WOJ is that they power up by killing. The smart ones wait for Plagues and Wars to power up.
I also speculate from information in Paranet Papers, that they might have both been allies and an enemy of Kemmler. The Black Court Purge started around 1899 according to Simon Pietrovichs letters, by the time of the Russian Revolution the last strongholds were holding out against the Purge. Kemmler could have used them both as a desperate ally and as an enemy against his own power growth. Not dissimmilar to how Nicodemus Said he viewed the Red Court, which he explained during Small Favour.
We also have WOJ confirmation the White Court helped with the dissemination of Bram Strokers book. Kind of a reverse Venatori campaign. (Side Note. I have an RPG Character who I wrote in being critical to that for Paranet Papers)
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A little correction here. Nothing Nicodemus says can be taken as true. In this case he was trying to recruit Harry so of course he lied.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Arjan on June 06, 2020, 03:53:38 PM --- A little correction here. Nothing Nicodemus says can be taken as true. In this case he was trying to recruit Harry ...
--- End quote ---
While while you are absolutely correct...
--- Quote from: Arjan on June 06, 2020, 03:53:38 PM --- ... so of course he lied.
--- End quote ---
This does not follow from the prior.
We don't actually know; Nic may have been lying, or not.
Nic cannot be relied upon to lie; he isn't one of those automatons from the old logic-puzzles, that is so predictable. He lies when it suits his purpose, and tells the truth when that suits his purpose.
I am perfectly willing to believe that Nic found the Ramps to be more often a nuisance methan an asset, and would readily offer them up as bargaining chip; particularly if he could -- like a stock trader with "insider knowledge" -- gain special benefit from his advance warning. He may have been being perfectly truthful.
Recall that Lasciel's Shadow (long before "Lash" became an ally of Harry's) was entirely willing to be helpful and truthful, as part of tempting Harry to take up a coin.
Really, Nic saying something is hardly ever an indication, either way, of whether that thing is true or false.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 07, 2020, 04:22:57 AM ---While while you are absolutely correct...
This does not follow from the prior.
We don't actually know; Nic may have been lying, or not.
Nic cannot be relied upon to lie; he isn't one of those automatons from the old logic-puzzles, that is so predictable. He lies when it suits his purpose, and tells the truth when that suits his purpose.
I am perfectly willing to believe that Nic found the Ramps to be more often a nuisance methan an asset, and would readily offer them up as bargaining chip; particularly if he could -- like a stock trader with "insider knowledge" -- gain special benefit from his advance warning. He may have been being perfectly truthful.
Recall that Lasciel's Shadow (long before "Lash" became an ally of Harry's) was entirely willing to be helpful and truthful, as part of tempting Harry to take up a coin.
Really, Nic saying something is hardly ever an indication, either way, of whether that thing is true or false.
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Except when he is saying something to influence you it is always safer to assume he is lying. He may use truth to build up to something but the crucial thing is a lie. There is no reason to assume Nicodemus is even interested in the reds that much. They are not part of his story and the suffering they cause can only help him. But there is all reason for Nicodemus to make Harry think he can be an ally against Harry’s most Important and hated enemy at that time. He probably knows about Susan and Harry so his statements about the reds are too much in line with what Harry wants. If something is too good to be true it is probably false.
Yuillegan:
Arjan, that might be your theory. But it is conjecture. You can't prove Nicodemus was lying because there is no evidence to say he was/is working with the Red Court. So best to stick to facts or qualify your statements e.g. Nicodemus was probably lying because...[Evidence A]. Saying an absolute statment outright (like Nicodemus lied when...) when you don't qualify or provide evidence is both poor argument and derails the conversation.
Which isn't to say that he might have lied when attempting to recruit Harry. But as I outline in my other thread, https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53453.0.html, I think Nicodemus would benfit greatly from the destruction of the Red Court. As would several other villains.
"If something is too good to be true, it is probably false" is a really strange argument to make in the setting of the Dresden Files. Michael Carpenter is "too good to be true" as is Uriel, Heaven etc. Are you saying that they don't exist or that they are in fact evil?
Con - that's an interesting theory. I quite like it. I wonder though if the White Court also used the opportunity to get rid of Kemmler etc as he was a threat in the long term.
G33k - I would be surprised if she became Queen Mavra. I think that would have been noticed by now. And something tells me that the Darkhallow is only open to mortals - other supernatural's would have to use different means I think. I can't back that up...but it feels right. Something to do with the Hecatean Hags in Welcome to the Jungle. But even if so, I think Mavra is the proxy or servant (or both) for a being far greater. My guess is Drakul. But whoever it is, I think they wanted the Word of Kemmler and now they have it. Who knows why.
Snark Knight - I quite agree. I am thoroughly hoping we seen him on stage in the next book or two. But if we don't I would say that he is a seriously major player...maybe bigger than the Mothers. Word is Jim is saving the really big characters for the trilogy (like the Devil etc). Then again, Uriel has already shown up. So I am hopeful. And yes, in White Knight I think Harry mentions that most people don't want to be Freeholding Lords when they realise that they might have to host a Blampire etc. So only the really powerful ones even bother. Which makes Marcone very special.
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