The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 29, 2020, 09:47:21 PM --- True, but is that true of Lasciel? I can see Denarians that go in for violence not last very long, but Lasciel's methods of seduction might take longer, her shadow existed a long time in Harry's head. Then again a pissed off lover could kill off her host in an act of passion quite quickly.
--- End quote ---
I got the impression that the shadow usually did not last that long and a host easily won is also easily discarded.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 29, 2020, 09:47:21 PM --- ... True, but is that true of Lasciel? I can see Denarians that go in for violence not last very long, but Lasciel's methods of seduction might take longer, her shadow existed a long time in Harry's head. Then again a pissed off lover could kill off her host in an act of passion quite quickly ...
--- End quote ---
I could see Lasciel going for a "quickie," even if she usually prefers the long haul.
Get a Host.
Break the Host.
Use the Host for an immediate goal (like whispering in Harry's ear).
Ride the Host to a kamikaze mission.
Wait in the Denarius for a better Host.
morriswalters:
Exactly how would they have known that Harry was going to break his back trying to get his landlady out of a burning house? And what support is there for any Fallen to exist as a true shadow in a room, other than Anduriel?
At the end of the day, if Jim wanted it to be Lasciel, it would have been Lasciel. But it looks like it was foreshadowing the plot device that shapes Skin Game, where Anduriel is finally shown to be able to listen from any shadow.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on April 29, 2020, 12:18:38 AM --- He says that part of Lash remained, that was Bonnie. However at the time Harry didn't know that.
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Say rather, Harry didn't know it consciously. idHarry "knew" it, in a nonverbal way, and needed articulate-Harry to put it into words for himself. That's the moment "Harry" realized that the parasite was a spirit-entity born of he & Lash; but at some level, he had "already known."
--- Quote from: Mira on April 29, 2020, 12:18:38 AM --- ... If he had nothing to fear, why not just leave it were it was at? Under three feet of concrete,[please don't hold me to the exact depth.. :P] and in a magical containment circle to boot.
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If the Denarius itself was insufficient "containment," the concrete and Harry's magic circle would be as butter to the hot Lasciel knife.
But yeah: Harry no longer feared the coin, as such. The shadow was "gone" (transformed, as it turns out), and Lasciel had lost her hold, her "conduit." Not even the spanking-fresh Shadow had been a "conduit," just an imprint, wholly-internal to Harry.
But consider: Nic had given Harry the coin. That paints a great big "Denarian Coin HERE" target on Dresden's dingy little hole (if Nic ever gets the report that the sigil is gone from Harry's hand, etc)... and on the home of Mrs. Spunkelcreif & the Willoughbys.
Clearly, the Church is the place it needs to go; so that's what Harry did.
--- Quote from: Mira on April 29, 2020, 12:18:38 AM --- ... Considering what happened in Father Forthill's office in Changes he was right to fear. Consider this, if Lasciel was no longer able to exert influence over Harry, why was she so effective? "And it is all your fault!"
--- End quote ---
All things considered, I think Anduriel is the more-likely Fallen to have whispered.
Why was it Lasciel who taunted him in Hades' vault with his suicide attempt? Because Anduriel had briefed her -- he's the Master of Shadows, a spymaster; he was running a psych-op against Dresden, and Lasciel / Hannah were an asset he employed.
Mira:
--- Quote ---It's a pretty W-A WAG, frankly... particularly when Occam is patiently standing there with an obvious alternative. We have WoJ that they're "frozen in carbonite." We have (as @morriswalters points out) Lasciel's Sigil being gone; not faint or obscure, but gone.
--- End quote ---
But Bonnie wasn't, was she? Note in Skin Game Lasciel referred to her as her child, not Lash's child. Though I agree that the coin should have been frozen in carbonite, two things, 1] if he didn't fear any connection to the coin at the end of White Night, why not just leave it there? It was unlikely anyone was going to come for it. Maybe Anduriel knew, but then he must have also known that the Sword of Faith was in plain sight in Harry's umbrella stand for years, yet no one tried to steal it to destroy it. 2] Is Bonnie a connection between Harry and Lasciel?
--- Quote ---But consider: Nic had given Harry the coin. That paints a great big "Denarian Coin HERE" target on Dresden's dingy little hole (if Nic ever gets the report that the sigil is gone from Harry's hand, etc)... and on the home of Mrs. Spunkelcreif & the Willoughbys.
--- End quote ---
Actually Nic knew that as of Small Favor. Also Michael seems to think just because Harry got rid of the coin, that it wasn't over..
page310
Harry has told Michael there is no more shadow, he'd given the coin to Father Forthill, Michael has doubts.. [Since this conversation happened in Michael's pick up, Andruiel might know as well.]
--- Quote ---"How do you know?" I asked.
"Because in two thousand years,no one has rid themselves of the shadow of one of the Fallen--except by accepting the demon into them entirely, taking up the coin, and living to feel remorse and discarding it. And you claim you never took up the coin."
"That's right,"I said.
"Then either the shadow is still there," Michael said, "still twisting your thoughts. Still whispering to you. Or you are lying to me about taking up the coin. Those are the only options."
--- End quote ---
Now we believe that Michael was mistaken, and Harry is the exception to that rule. But then again, if Bonnie is the connection back to the coin, then Lasciel still could have made a showing in the office in Changes.
Later on during the fight on the island, Nic asks the shadow of Lasciel to disable Harry so he can
help himself to the Sword of Faith. Harry tells him on page 382
--- Quote ---" Lasciel's shadow," I told him, "doesn't live her anymore. The Fallen have no power over me and neither do you."
--- End quote ---
So between what he told Michael in the pickup assuming Andruiel was listening, and what Harry told
him, he knew the coin was no longer there. Yeah, it is possible that Andruiel wasn't listening in on Michael and Harry's conversation.. But then again if what Michael said about the coin and the shadow is true, then neither Nic nor Andruiel would have believed the influence was totally gone.
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