The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: AClone on April 11, 2020, 12:57:30 AM ---D. The Archive/Ivy is neutral. Because we're talking "neutral" in terms of the Accords. She doesn't make alliances, or officially help people. Come to think of it, the only time we've seen her acting against anyone is when someone has violated those Accords. At which point they are dealt with. With extreme prejudice.
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--- Quote from: Yuillegan on March 11, 2020, 01:34:18 AM ---The Archive was built to be neutral, as in magically limited.
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You might be talking "neutral" in terms of the Accords, but many people are talking about her cover story of neutrality. The neutrality explicitly stated in books. It's pretty common for people to build theories around that neutrality or to object to theories based on that neutrality. The fact that it's a cover is only stated by Jim. It's not in any of the books, short stories, comic books, or paranet papers.
SoftManacles4MagiHackers:
I don't think ivy first learned about Harry's plan from the phone call with Kincaid (click to show/hide)First off, on the assumption Lasciel is the shadow, she would have been broken out. Which the church, knowing that most coins are from their storage, probably figured out and did paperwork on. Just knowing she was out could put ivy on alert. Also, how did lasciel get out of her coin? To release a fallen angel into the world, when it appears they are required to stay in the coin, would certainly require heavy magic, or a ritual that could send off warnings from anything from purchasing materials to communicating and planning among the denarians, or the spies that cant be in direct contact like in the church. It is my belief that ivy knew of the intent and actions of lasciel, and was already planning to do something about it. her emotional response to Kincaid was because she knew he would have the best chance of succeeding. We have to remember that the archive was made to deal with significant harmful entities. She is most known for her written knowledge acquisition, but she must have many more specialties in order to carry out her duty. The paperwork and therefore observations of humans isn't that reliable, and many of the foes in the oblivion war would certainly be capable of getting around her. She wouldn't be that important to it if she didn't have more talents. Significant, subtle actions beyond the ability to sense, like lasciel being out of ber coin, could arguably be necessary for her whole purpose.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Yes, the moral of the story is one shouldn't jump to conclusions, that was Harry's error.
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I don't think Harry jumped to conclusions. Regardless of the fact that he was lied to, he did ask Kim repeatedly why she needed to know about the circle, and asking seems like the opposite of jumping to conclusions.
--- Quote ---First off, on the assumption Lasciel is the shadow, she would have been broken out. Which the church, knowing that most coins are from their storage, probably figured out and did paperwork on. Just knowing she was out could put ivy on alert. Also, how did lasciel get out of her coin? To release a fallen angel into the world, when it appears they are required to stay in the coin, would certainly require heavy magic, or a ritual that could send off warnings from anything from purchasing materials to communicating and planning among the denarians, or the spies that cant be in direct contact like in the church.
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There's a WoJ that being in the coins limits the influence of the Fallen in them to Earth, which I had taken to mean that the Fallen in the coins absolutely can project themselves out of them, it's just against the rules. If that's the case, then there wouldn't be any need for a ritual.
Mira:
--- Quote ---There's a WoJ that being in the coins limits the influence of the Fallen in them to Earth, which I had taken to mean that the Fallen in the coins absolutely can project themselves out of them, it's just against the rules. If that's the case, then there wouldn't be any need for a ritual.
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I think it happened under special circumstances, the conditions were perfect. At the end of White Night Harry dug up the coin and had Father Forthill pick it up. If he hadn't transferred it to where ever the Church keeps them and it was in a safe in his office, the influence might still be there. Ordinarily it wouldn't be save for Harry's former connection with it. Remember also when Harry played the guitar at the end, he still heard a voice, so Lash wasn't completely gone.
--- Quote ---I don't think Harry jumped to conclusions. Regardless of the fact that he was lied to, he did ask Kim repeatedly why she needed to know about the circle, and asking seems like the opposite of jumping to conclusions.
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Yes, he repeatedly asked Kim why she needed to know, she lied totally including excluding the most important detail, the monster was already out and about. Yes, Harry did come to a very rational conclusion because the only reason he knew for wanting to make that circle was for summoning and keeping in the worst and most powerful monsters and demons, something Kim wasn't even close to pulling off even if he had told her everything. He did the right thing given the information she gave him, he actually thought at the time he was protecting her.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---At the end of White Night Harry dug up the coin and had Father Forthill pick it up. If he hadn't transferred it to where ever the Church keeps them and it was in a safe in his office, the influence might still be there.
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Why wouldn't he transfer it to where it's supposed to go?
--- Quote ---Ordinarily it wouldn't be save for Harry's former connection with it.
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...Are you claiming that Father Forthill wants Harry to pick up Lasciel's coin? Because otherwise I don't get this sentence at all.
--- Quote ---Remember also when Harry played the guitar at the end, he still heard a voice, so Lash wasn't completely gone.
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Yes, and we were told what that was in Skin Game, so it's irrelevant here.
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