The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Peace talks excerpt indications

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Mira:

--- Quote ---Many on the forum argue that Eb is Harry's mentor, so he must die in keeping with the structure of the hero's journey. This is wrong for two reasons. First Eb isn't a mentor in the hero's journey sense. Eb has never shown up to Harry and caused Harry to take up the call to adventure after Harry has refused it. This means that Eb is not Harry's mentor in the hero's journey sense. Second, the death of the mentor isn't a step in the hero's journey. Let's go back to Star Wars. What would the death of the mentor even mean? That Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen come back to life? That's preposterous.
--- End quote ---

 That isn't exactly true..  In Turn Coat after Harry is released from the infirmary Eb walks with or escorts Harry back to Chicago from Scotland.  It is Eb that prods Harry, it is Eb who hints at the organization of the Grey Council, this is when Harry seems to be pulling back because he thinks he is alone. 

Bad Alias:
I'd say that, and just about everything in the concluding chapter, would be the "Return with the Elixir" stage of the hero's journey.

Though thinking about Eb as a mentor, he would probably qualify in Proven Guilty when he convinces Harry to figure out what's going on in the Faerie Courts.

But this doesn't really help the argument that as a mentor, Eb has to die because many characters act as a mentor at some point. I'm sure we could fit Michael, Lea, Thomas, Maggie (Sr.), Malcolm, Rashid, Eb, Bob, Odin/Vadderung/Kringle, and Mab in there. We can probably make decent arguments for Uriel, Murphy, Butters, Murphy's dad, Mort, Sir Stuart, Carmichael, Billy, Luccio, Molly, and probably some others I haven't thought of. I don't think they are all going to die just so Harry's "hero's journey" can progress.

Avernite:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on February 16, 2020, 10:40:38 PM ---Merriam Webster's mentor and the hero's journey's mentor are two completely different things. Mentor is generally defined as "an experienced and trusted person who gives another person advice and help, esp. related to work or school, over a period of time." When speaking in the context of the hero's journey, the mentor refers to whatever the hero needs to change his mind after he has refused the call to adventure and go forth and succeed. In this context, the mentor can be a character trait, an object, a person, or literally anything else.

People often assume that the mentor in this context is a person who has to die so the hero can't rely on the person for help and must go forth on his adventure. This is a misunderstanding of both the hero's journey and what is meant by the mentor. For example, in Star Wars Luke refuses the call by telling Obi-Wan that he can't leave the farm. The Empire murders his family. Luke then decides to take up the call to adventure. Here the murder of Luke's family is the mentor, not Obi-Wan.

Many on the forum argue that Eb is Harry's mentor, so he must die in keeping with the structure of the hero's journey. This is wrong for two reasons. First Eb isn't a mentor in the hero's journey sense. Eb has never shown up to Harry and caused Harry to take up the call to adventure after Harry has refused it. This means that Eb is not Harry's mentor in the hero's journey sense. Second, the death of the mentor isn't a step in the hero's journey. Let's go back to Star Wars. What would the death of the mentor even mean? That Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen come back to life? That's preposterous.

Because Eb isn't a mentor and the mentor doesn't have to die, the argument that (premise 1): Eb is the mentor, (premise 2): the mentor has to die, so (conclusion): Eb will die, is wrong. Both premises are false. The conclusion cannot be reached because of the premises. The conclusion may be true for completely different reasons, but not because of the mentor/hero's journey argument.

--- End quote ---

I looked it up, and your variant of the Mentor is not the same as the wikipedia (I know) page makes of it.


--- Quote ---Once the hero has committed to the quest, consciously or unconsciously, his guide and magical helper appears or becomes known. More often than not, this supernatural mentor will present the hero with one or more talismans or artifacts that will aid him later in his quest. Meeting the person that can help them in their journey.
--- End quote ---

Some further storytelling goes on to explain the Mentor represents the forces of 'destiny' in the positive sense; not only is the hero supposed to save the world, the world (through the mentor) also helps the hero along. And in that sense, the mentor MUST be removed from the story, because if evil is directly up against destiny, what use is there for a separate hero? The mentor can only support the hero, and this can be because the mentor is not quite that special, or dies, or is crippled... or just vanishes (e.g. Gandalf in the Hobbit).

In that sense, of how is Harry's destiny supporting him yet not getting in the way of him being the hero of the story... Bob actually seems a much more logical mentor.

Mira:


Given the above, Shiro would be a main mentor, he is the one who made Harry custodian of his Holy Sword as he was dying.  Being custodian of the Swords has been a major factor in Harry's life.

Bad Alias:
From the wikipedia article:
--- Quote ---Scholars have questioned the validity or usefulness of the monomyth category. ...
Others have found the categories Campbell works with so vague as to be meaningless...
In a similar vein, American philosopher John Shelton Lawrence and American religious scholar Robert Jewett have discussed an "American Monomyth" ... . They present this as an American reaction to the Campbellian monomyth. The "American Monomyth" storyline is: A community in a harmonious paradise is threatened by evil; normal institutions fail to contend with this threat; a selfless superhero emerges to renounce temptations and carry out the redemptive task; aided by fate, his decisive victory restores the community to its paradisiacal condition; the superhero then recedes into obscurity.
--- End quote ---
I agree with the first two sentences and think that the second part sounds more like what's going on in the Dresden Files than the hero's journey, but, not having looked into it, I imagine it is also a formula that an author can easily diverge from.

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