The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Shadows
Mira:
--- Quote ---The point is that Lasciel's part in the story has ended. Unless and until Jim decides to put her back into the story, the Coin is in the Vault. She can come out of the Vault if Jim wants her to—she doesn't even have to show up. Just a throwaway line from Nic or whoever saying something about removing the Coin from the Vault is enough to remove her from there. But unless and until that happens, that's where the Coin remains.
--- End quote ---
It has, and reintroducing her has diminishing returns, her affecting Harry's despair and prompting his suicide in Changes worked. Having Hannah take up the coin in Skin Game wasn't effective in my opinion, mainly because we had nothing emotionally invested in her. The show down was a let down because in my opinion it didn't live up to the "woman scorned" hype..
Now if Jim had gone the Murphy taking up the coin route, it would shocked some, pissed off many, and begged the question, what in the hell does Harry do now because the most trusted friend he had in the world, the woman he loves, has become an enemy.. It could have been the topic for a whole novel..
g33k:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on January 03, 2020, 02:59:12 AM --- @ g33k: Why do you see Jim wanting Lasciel back in the story? I ask because I just don't see any story for her. There are plenty of characters I feel have threads hanging to be tugged on. Lasciel just isn't one of them...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Mira on January 03, 2020, 04:14:00 PM ---... Now if Jim had gone the Murphy taking up the coin route, it would shocked some, pissed off many, and begged the question, what in the hell does Harry do now because the most trusted friend he had in the world, the woman he loves, has become an enemy.. It could have been the topic for a whole novel..
--- End quote ---
This, for one (Mira's notion). That story is still available, notwithstanding the H.Ascher arc.
I think Lasciel could go (in a usefully-Doylist manner) to one of Harry's already-trusted people. Murphy, Elaine, etc. Agent Tilly (though I'd hate that). Justine, to rig a Thomas/Harry schism. Etc.
I'm not committed to the rematch; I'm not convinced it's happening. I just think we'll see her again; it "feels" to me like Jim has more to say there. I'm not sure what that is, or what it looks like.
Maybe Harry calls the coin in extremis -- Maggie is about to die, he needs a powerup RIGHT NOW (we already know he'll make a deal he hates, to save his baby... he picked Mab over Lasciel because he had more hope of tricking Mab, but it seemed clear he'd have gone with Lasciel if Mab weren't dealing).
That'd be a new storyline -- not just the Shadow in his head, but the actual Fallen!
= = =
As I say -- I'm not convinced it'll happen, I just think it more-likely-than-not. And as Kindler says, the BAT looks likely to feature the Fallen prominently, so then if not before. Maybe Lasciel is out-and-about, but just stays offscreen of the Case Files stories, until the BAT.
I'm convinced that she'll be back in circulation from a Dresdenverse perspective, because that's what the coins do. I'm not convinced she'll get any screen-time in Harry Dresden's story.
Bad Alias:
That all seems too close to something we've seen before to me, and I can see better ways of doing the new parts.
Regenbogen:
--- Quote ---from Mira:
Now if Jim had gone the Murphy taking up the coin route, it would shocked some, pissed off many, and begged the question, what in the hell does Harry do now because the most trusted friend he had in the world, the woman he loves, has become an enemy.. It could have been the topic for a whole novel..
--- End quote ---
I can't get that dream in Skin Game out of my head. Yes, Lasciel appeared at the end, but I think Harry should just believe that's what the dream meant. But why was it Murphy with the second set of eyes?
I think Nic retrieved the Lashiel's coin during the fight, got secretly into the hospital to uncounscious Murphy, made her skin make contact with the coin without her knowing it, and so made sure, a shadow was created.
I mean, Murphy is the perfect victim now. The hard times she had losing her job, her purpose, her identity and then losing Harry, finding him again, and then being crippled. Maybe she will never be the same again. Can't walk well, not without pain, can't fight any more.
Perfect circumstances for a shadow she doesn't even know about to start influencing her into finally taking up the coin. To end the pain, to become strong again and useful.
Maybe she will take up the coin somewhere during Peace Talks or some time later, when enough time has passed and she had realized, that she won't get any better. Maybe she won't be aware of the shadow for a long time. Lashiel can be subtle.
Becoming a Knight of the Blackened Denarius is not the end. They can be redeemed. So she would not be hopelessly lost. Harry would try to get her back.
In Peace Talks there might be some personal happiness with Harry and Karrin as a couple, with Maggie and Bonnie but we all know, Harry is not supposed to be happy in the long run. It would not fit with what Jim has written so far.
So I think, yes, Murphy as a Denarian will hurt, but it won't be a hopeless situation. And I would totally understand her taking up Lasciel for getting stronger in her current situation.
Mira:
--- Quote ---This, for one (Mira's notion). That story is still available, notwithstanding the H.Ascher arc.
--- End quote ---
Hopefully, but go to the well too many times and the arc loses it's impact.
The point is the whole "woman scorned" buildup fell like a lame thud than a bomb shell. We the
readers didn't know Hannah Ascher, so she became a mere vehicle for the Lasciel/Harry confrontation and fight which went on and ended like most of Harry's one on one battles, no real emotional price for Harry to pay so where is the revenge? Harry felt attraction towards Hannah, but it was mostly physical, the "build up" with her overt overtures towards Harry were rather lame and rushed. So the battle came down to pissed off fallen angel in a young bitter woman who had some scores to settle verses Harry..
I agree Harry's nightmare about Murphy having a coin was haunting, to carry it through might have worked better than the fight between her and Nic ending with a Holy Sword broken.. Or better yet Harry realizing that Murphy not only was carrying a coin, but she had control of one of the Swords as well... Now that really would have tied Harry's shorts in a real knot... Worse yet for our hero, is
if Murphy/Lasciel survived to fight another day, not just having to meet her again, but Nic using her
as a weapon against him.. That could have gone on for several books.
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