The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Shadows
g33k:
Denarians, as we know, can implant a "shadow" of themselves within the mind of a mortal who knowingly/intentionally handles a coin.
It doesn't appear to be like a magical "tag," where touching an unwilling or unknowing subject gives that person a Shadow. You gotta know what you're doing, and do it either intentionally or carelessly. Similarly, merely "handling" a coin isn't sufficient to release the Fallen and become their host. You must, it seems, agree to that role; you must "make a deal with the Devil," so to speak.
Still, there is that "Shadowed" step, between being host to one of the Fallen and being utterly free of the coin & its Fallen.
But thanks to @morriswalters, I just realized something...
In Proven Guilty, Michael Carpenter tells Harry how to eliminate the shadow:
--- Quote ---“Give up the coin of your own will. And set aside your power. If you do, Lasciel’s shadow will dwindle with it and waste away.”
--- End quote ---
Hmm. That's how a WIZARD can do it. (How can a MUGGLE do it? Or CAN they even? More on that below...).
Then we look at Harry's magic. Even before the Shadow manifested to Harry, in dream or illusion, it was still giving Hellfire to Harry's magic; mostly to Fuego, but also to Forzare. Simply running his will through his staff (to get the runes glowing) brought a hint of brimstone.
Taken together, it appears that a Denarian Shadow -- in a wizard -- links directly and to their magic, not merely to their "mind."
I mean, yeah there's stuff like the "eidetic memory" trick, gift-of-Tongues, etc. Mental tricks that aren't explicitly "magical."
But the Shadow was affecting Harry's spells without him understanding how, or what to do about it; and the Church knows that setting aside magic will cause a Shadow to "whither" alongside the magic.
So the Shadow -- in a Wizard -- is linked specifically to their magic!
Other mortals (from above), non-wizards? How do they get free? I'm going to go over to Father Forthill's wisdom in Proven Guilty:
--- Quote ---“Power,” he said, waving a hand in an all-encompassing gesture. "Magic. Physical strength. Economic strength. Political strength. It all serves a single purpose..."
--- End quote ---
So I'll venture a WAG that any Muggle would set aside the Shadow by setting aside their mundane strength. Retire from politics (including all consulting, being interviewed, writing op-ed pieces, lobbying, etc); give away all their wealth; etc. Someone with physical strength would be particularly challenged, I think; they'd have to set up their life to operate as if they were of average-or-less strength, and intentionally act within those limits. Take more trips carrying smaller loads, pack smaller bags/boxes to carry, etc.
Yuillegan:
Very interesting question.
I like the answer you have given, especially as Jim when writing how one gives up a denarian was only thinking about it from a Wizards perspective.
The simple answer of course, is that almost no one ever does, so there might not be much knowledge for how to do it.
Our case study is Sanya. What did Sanya put aside to remove the Fallen? His ego? His tainted love for Rosanna? It is unclear. Yes admittedly he was giving up the Coin, not resisting a shadow.
So perhaps you have to take up the Coin to get rid of the Shadow if you are a vanilla mortal. Have to go forward to go back, so to speak.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: g33k on December 16, 2019, 05:37:31 PM ---It doesn't appear to be like a magical "tag," where touching an unwilling or unknowing subject gives that person a Shadow. You gotta know what you're doing, and do it either intentionally or carelessly. Similarly, merely "handling" a coin isn't sufficient to release the Fallen and become their host. You must, it seems, agree to that role; you must "make a deal with the Devil," so to speak.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure either way on that. There are some indications it works that way, but then Harry seemed to think Thomas and Karrin were in danger if they touched dropped coins without knowing what they were was in SmF. He & Michael also both thought little Harry Carpenter would have been in trouble if Harry hadn't grabbed Lasciel's coin first when Nicodemus threw it at him at the end of DM, and a toddler clearly wouldn't have any idea about that.
morriswalters:
Somebody can look this up if they care enough. Harry and Michael talk about this. Maybe in Skin Game. I tried to find it, but it's in one of the books somewhere.. Michael said that the Denarians had attacked the Knights through their children in just this fashion. Harry describes shadow as an imaginary friend in Small Favor. So think about it.
In terms of how a vanilla mortal shakes a shadow. I picture it like addiction. Some people can shoot up and walk away, some are hooked for life. With no coin and no magic energy to draw on, the shadow would just fade over time.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on December 17, 2019, 12:34:19 AM --- I'm not sure either way on that. There are some indications it works that way, but then Harry seemed to think Thomas and Karrin were in danger if they touched dropped coins without knowing what they were was in SmF ...
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure this specific instance is Harry not knowing for sure, but knowing the downside risk was immeasurably-awful! :-\
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on December 17, 2019, 12:34:19 AM --- ... He & Michael also both thought little Harry Carpenter would have been in trouble if Harry hadn't grabbed Lasciel's coin first when Nicodemus threw it at him at the end of DM, and a toddler clearly wouldn't have any idea about that.
--- End quote ---
This is an excellent point... and I presume Michael is in a position to know with some accuracy.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on December 17, 2019, 01:44:23 AM --- Somebody can look this up if they care enough. Harry and Michael talk about this. Maybe in Skin Game. I tried to find it, but it's in one of the books somewhere.. Michael said that the Denarians had attacked the Knights through their children in just this fashion. Harry describes shadow as an imaginary friend in Small Favor. So think about it.
--- End quote ---
Again, good points.
But then... why do the Denarians torture people to try to get them to take a coin? Seems like a poor tactic for long-term success! Harry, Marcone, Ivy... Why not just /touch/ the coin to them, duct-tape it to their bicep, whatever. Place the coin in contact with them, and keep them prisoner until they convert? I mean... maybe the whole "torture" schtick is fun for some of them (Tessa springs to mind, and whoever Ursiel targets), but others (like Nic) seem to feel it's a lamentably-slow process & only moderately likely to be productive.
If all it took was an unwitting touch, I expect there'd be a HUGE Denarian push to place Shadows in strategic locations throughout both Muggle and supernatural worlds. I mean, it's EASY to get just a touch onto someone not expecting that.
So I'm not clear what the parameters are... I can see textual evidence that shadow-at-a-touch IS a problem, and that it is NOT.
Maybe "it's complicated" is the best we can hope for.
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