The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Elaine, Trojan Horse? "It was the knife..."
Mira:
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IMO one of the major points of starting and ending in the warehouse is to show Harry's journey to understanding the problem of identifying proto wizards before getting to the point of needing a trial. I think this is the basis of Harry's thinking when he decides to create the Paranet. Many eyes.
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Are you sure that Harry created it? I was under the impression it existed before he heard about it.
--- Quote ---It isn't about blame or responsibility. From Mab's perspective the story plays out exactly as she states it. Whatever Harry's intent, Mab's dialog in Cold Days represents the end point. The way things turned out. Harry may not have meant it to work out that way, but he's the only one who could know that.
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It is about context, it is about control on Mab's part, thus the guilt trip on Harry. We know that Harry can be very irrational about taking the blame for things that are not really his fault. "And it is all your fault!" Were the lies whispered to him by Lasciel, remember? Harry was totally pissed at Mab after what happened to Molly. Mab the master manipulator knows her knight very well and twisted what happened between Harry and Molly over the years to her advantage, shutting him up effectively. There were just enough grains of truth in what she said that she wasn't lying exactly, but neither was she telling the truth, and without an archangel standing by to whisper to the contrary, Harry bought it. She then said that she had done something Harry couldn't, put Molly out of reach of the Council by making her Winter Lady.. True, but that doesn't mean that Molly wouldn't have redeemed herself in time. So saved from the Council, but what of her very human soul? Mab was human once too.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: White Knight ---"You should know," I said. "I got reparations out of the White Court. A weregild for their dependents."
She blinked at me. "How?"
"My boyish charm. Can you get me contact information for the victims' families? I'll get somebody to get the money to them."
"Yes," she said. "Some of them didn't have any dependents. Like Anna."
I grunted and nodded. "I thought we might use that money to build something."
Elaine frowned at me. "Oh?"
I nodded. "We use the money. We expand the Ordo, build a network of contacts. A hotline for middle-class practitioners. We contact groups like the Ordo in cities all around the country. We put the word out that if people are in some kind of supernatural fix, they can get word of it onto the network. Maybe if something like this starts happening again, we can hear about it early and stomp on the fire before it grows. We teach self-defense classes. We help people coordinate, cooperate, support one another. We act."
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Bad Alias:
Quote from: Mira
--- Quote ---Let's also get this straight, Harry isn't responsible for Molly's hero worship. ... You think Harry deliberately set any of that up so Molly would see him as a heroic figure?
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Me:
--- Quote ---When did I say any of that?
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--- Quote from: Mira on November 01, 2019, 07:46:06 PM ---You said that Molly didn't go to Harry for help because of her hero worship of him.
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Clarification: When did I say "Harry is responsible for Molly's hero worship. I think Harry deliberately set any of that up so Molly would see him as a heroic figure."
Also, Charity isn't the only one at fault. Molly is as well. She had a perfect resource for learning about magic. She knows the world of magic is real. She knows it is dangerous. She isn't an innocent victim of circumstance. Are there mitigating factors? Are others also to blame? Sure, but that doesn't matter once actions with necessary consequences are taken.
Also, what Morris said.
I do think that Mab believed that Harry intended Molly to become his loyal vassal because faeries are alien in their thinking and sometimes they just can't understand mortals. Put another way, I think Mab thought Harry did that because that's what Mab would have done. I'm not willing to dig up the scene to analyze it right now.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I do think that Mab believed that Harry intended Molly to become his loyal vassal because faeries are alien in their thinking and sometimes they just can't understand mortals. Put another way, I think Mab thought Harry did that because that's what Mab would have done. I'm not willing to dig up the scene to analyze it right now.
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Yes, it is, but at the same time I think she also understands that by saying it she is guilt tripping Harry, thus controlling him.
--- Quote ---Clarification: When did I say "Harry is responsible for Molly's hero worship. I think Harry deliberately set any of that up so Molly would see him as a heroic figure."
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Huh? Are you saying he did deliberately or he didn't?
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Also, Charity isn't the only one at fault. Molly is as well. She had a perfect resource for learning about magic. She knows the world of magic is real. She knows it is dangerous. She isn't an innocent victim of circumstance. Are there mitigating factors? Are others also to blame? Sure, but that doesn't matter once actions with necessary consequences are taken.
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No body says she is.. She knows it, that is why she didn't agree with Harry's explanation as to
why she didn't go to him right off, it's complicated, all mixed up with teenage emotions, hormones, and family dynamics.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 02, 2019, 11:58:22 PM ---Huh? Are you saying he did deliberately or he didn't?
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You implied I believed Harry deliberately entrapped Molly by doing all the things Mab said in Cold Days because I said Harry had a better opportunity to stop Molly from going warlock than the Council has at stopping some random kid from going warlock. One thing has nothing to do with the other, so I asked when did I say that Harry deliberately entrapped Molly. You responded by saying that I said Molly didn't go to Harry because of her hero worship of him.
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