The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Proven Guilty speculation, because, why not?
kbrizzle:
@morriswalters
Bare bones, our theories seem to mesh a fair amount except for a few things:
* When the attack on AT took place - although I like the theory that the attack happened during DB but Mab slowed down time at AT so a year looks like a few weeks so she can deal with the assault - I’ll need to think about it some more, but it looks good.
If you’re saying that the BC had a 3 pronged attack planned during DB to hit the Venatori, then WC/ wardens & then AT, remember that there is a BC (Ramp+Outsider) attack happening in parallel during PG as well- this is why Michael went to OR to rescue the kids & SC - if Mab had won for a year, why didn’t she do anything to help there? Perhaps the assault on AT was timed in parallel to the attack in OR so Mab couldn’t help out there - if Michael hadn’t shown up, 4 members of the SC including Rashid & Eb would’ve likely been wiped out.
It would make more sense if Mab had recently routed the assault on AT & then immediately looks to see what else the BC is doing - she sees the events unfolding around Molly, so engineers the first attack on Pell to get Harry’s attention & set up a portal through which he can get to AT should the need arise (perhaps to get the WC to help since she likely doesn’t trust any other wizard) in the face of another BC assault.
* The need for the BC assault team to go through the portal at Pell’s theater - again, I’m not sure why a skilled sorcerer like Namshiel would need this, especially if he has the help of Maeve.
Harry was able to open a portal to Hades without Hades or anyone else guiding him - he just needed Nic to tell him that Marcone’s vault would do as a like-place in the mortal world, so why would Namshiel need Lily to open such a portal, when Nfected Lea or Maeve could have told the BC? Additionally, why does the portal need to be in Chicago where a Starborn & KotC reside? Why not Canada or Sweden?
* What was Mab doing between DB & PG as well as during PG? IIRC, you are in the camp that believes Mab fixed LC during the events of PG. While I’m not against this, in my theory someone from Summer fixes LC.
By your theory, the attack happens during DB but Mab wins & spends the next few months (nearly a year in mortal time) alone at a busted up AT without any defenses. At the beginning of PG, she ‘re-opens’ the Pell’s theater portal & sends across a Fetch to assault Pell while Nelson is in the bathroom. The purpose of this is to lay a trap for the traitor within Winter?
morriswalters:
The analogy between Marcone's vault and Pell's theater work's this way for me. Without Marcone's vault Harry couldn't get to Hade's realm period. I would assume, were I Jim and I was writing it, that accessing the vicinity of Arctis Tor would be similar in nature in terms of difficulty,to the difficulty in accessing Hades. So once the theater was prepped anyone could open the portal, but without the theater no human could. YMMV. That's how I envision it.
Your third point. I don't suggest that it happened this way in Jim's mind, but think of a slow zone surrounding Arctis Tor where time slows down. So if your coming to Arctis Tor to attack, time will slow for you while Mab in her fortress proceeds at normal time. She will appear to you to be racing, while to her you will look like a turtle. It's almost a perfect defense.
However if access to Arctis Tor is restricted and Mab ends up in control of the crossing point at Pell's theater than you don't need a guard at all, you always have time to yell for help. The assault on Pell appears to have accomplished precisely one thing. It kept him away from his theater and kept it closed during the events of Proven Guilty. As to why Mab might do something like that, any theory is as good as mine, since I don't have a coherent one. WOJ is that Mab had Molly brought to the fortress. Obviously she wanted Harry there and she has shown a willingness to accept collateral damage to accomplish her goals. Other than that I'm more or less clueless.
I don't think I covered all your points, however I am currently out of ideas. Thanks for the back and forth. It helps me quite a bit.
kbrizzle:
@morriswalters
Agreed, these discussions help me quite a bit too. I suppose we’ll have to wait till Peace Talks to see if any new info is given about PG (although I suspect we’ll have to wait till MM).
I disagree about the point regarding Harry being unable to get to Hades without Marcone’s vault. I’m sure other places around the world exist, but perhaps they are even harder to break into than Marcone’s vault. Hades explicitly says that the point of his hoarding divine weapons is not to keep them away from people, but rather to force the ones who come there to show their determination & skill so that at least they would be able to use the weapons properly. Hades doesn’t mind people trying to enter his demesne, so he’s not actively trying to hide it.
Besides, in SG Marcone was in on the con, so I always assumed that Marcone’s place was set up so that team Mab (which Marcone is on in SG) would control the point of egress in case Harry failed. Since Mab cannot attack Nic without breaking her word, Marcone is the hedge - he has a legitimate gripe about Nic breaking into his bank & so can hit Nic without anything reflecting poorly on Mab.
Separately, there are other reasons why Marcone was used in SG.
* Marcone & Nic had squabbled a couple of times previously with Marcone just about coming out on top (the Shroud & being able to get away in SmF). Nic was likely eager to hit Marcone again & get the better of him this time
* There have been parallels drawn a couple of times between Marcone & Hades as ‘reluctant but honorable lords of the Underworld’. Perhaps this is foreshadowing greater things for Marcone in the future. After all, Odin, Mab & Hades are helping him out now
* In the DV, power needs to have purpose. If Marcone is to become more powerful, he must have greater purpose. By making him the mortal world’s supernatural banker, Mab et al are elevating Marcone in terms of stature & power.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: kbrizzle on July 08, 2019, 06:00:21 PM ---I disagree about the point regarding Harry being unable to get to Hades without Marcone’s vault. I’m sure other places around the world exist.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure Morris's point is simply that Harry couldn't enter Hades at the Gate of Fire from just any place. It had to be Marcone's vault or a place almost exactly like it owned by a lord of the underworld. There's a good chance it was the only place in the world like it.
As to the number of bones, the bulk of them might have nothing to do with the attack on Arctis Tor. Winter is not a fun place. I believe the bones are connected to the assault, just raising the point that it's not hard to imagine that Arctis Tor would have a lot of bones around anyway.
kbrizzle:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on July 12, 2019, 07:46:23 PM ---I'm pretty sure Morris's point is simply that Harry couldn't enter Hades at the Gate of Fire from just any place. It had to be Marcone's vault or a place almost exactly like it owned by a lord of the underworld. There's a good chance it was the only place in the world like it.
--- End quote ---
I disagree - Marcone’s place was specially made to be the easiest place for Nic & Co. to break into. In SG, it takes them all of 2-3 chapters to break in. This was of course for Mab’s con to work. Surely Hades’ demesne wasn’t cordoned off from the mortal world for centuries until Marcone’s bank was built...
--- Quote ---As to the number of bones, the bulk of them might have nothing to do with the attack on Arctis Tor. Winter is not a fun place. I believe the bones are connected to the assault, just raising the point that it's not hard to imagine that Arctis Tor would have a lot of bones around anyway.
--- End quote ---
We know this isn’t the case from CD when Harry is in AT. Also the sheer number of bones & the way they were placed clearly shows a brutal fight, especially since a lot of the bones were melted by hellfire.
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