The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...
morriswalters:
--- Quote ---Why is it Harry's fault instead of the fault of Kirby, Will, Morgan, or whoever hired the Skinwalker?
--- End quote ---
I want you to attempt to see the difference between guilt and responsibility. The Skinwalker is guilty of murder, Harry was the reason that Kirby got murdered. The first is a crime, the second a failing. The only penalty for the second is the death of your friends. I gave you a direct quote from Billy that states this explicitly.
--- Quote ---He nodded. “So. If I’d had this conversation with you sooner, maybe they wouldn’t be. Maybe if we’d had a better idea about what’s actually going on in the world, it would have changed how we approached things. They follow my lead, Harry. I(Billy) have a responsibility to make sure that I do everything in my power to make them aware and safe.”
--- End quote ---
Note that Billy doesn't say he can keep them alive, merely that he gives them the best chance at doing so.
Mira:
--- Quote ---The shapeshifter is a force of nature. While he delivered the blow, Harry was the cause. He didn't go looking for the pack, he went looking for Harry. And Jim through the way he writes Harry, seems to feel the same way. In Cold Front in a bid to reduce possible collateral damage, he breaks in to Butters apartment to steal Bob rather then knocking and saying please. Harry is a lightning rod and he owes it to everyone around him to explain the danger of standing near him in lightning storms. After Turn Coat he's figured this out and all his allies are clued in.
--- End quote ---
Hold it, you are blaming the potential victim for the crime.. Yes, Harry was the target, but his friends were merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.. That doesn't make it his fault, they chose to be with him. Yes, he may feel some responsibility but that doesn't make it rational, which pushed him to do they type of thing he did to try an protect Butters.. Which is understandable, but not totally rational.
--- Quote ---I'd like it noted that I feel uncomfortable with the claim that Harry owes it to people around him to explain everything, and I have a gut feeling that it's wrong. However, it's after 2am here, so I cannot find the words to explain why I feel that way. I may come back to this after I've gotten some sleep.
--- End quote ---
Same here, but whether or not Harry "owes" it to people to explain everything is a silly argument as you are trying to point out. For one thing, I am almost though my first cup of coffee, anyway most of the time he cannot explain everything because he himself doesn't know everything at that moment... He could try to explain to Billy and company about the Skinwalker, but they don't have
the sight so they cannot see it for what it really is.. They work as a pack so they think they are pretty bad ass and can fight above their weight class, Harry when he takes refuge at Billy's place is nearly catatonic from what he had just witnessed...
--- Quote ---Yes, she hadn't gotten anywhere. This is because A) She was focussing on Harry, which she wouldn't do if Harry wasn't involved; and B) Harry wrapped up the three-eye thing extremely quickly.
--- End quote ---
She was coming on to Harry to get information, very true.. He allowed her to do it because he hadn't really been with a woman since Elaine... However their first date nearly ended in tragedy because of the Frog Demon attack.... "Danger Will Robinson...." Susan was a big girl, prides herself on being a smart one.... Her choice from then on out to continue with Harry or not... She did fall in love with him, but she also was a moth attracted to a flame, knowing him and getting the information would make her career... She may have loved him, but in the end she used him, stealing that invitation wasn't an act of love.. You may think he owed her all the information he knew, but other than using it to expose things to the public that might get them killed, wouldn't have stopped her from going headlong into a nest of vipers for her career... None of that is Harry's fault, Susan made her choice and took her chances, she paid for it.
--- Quote ---
I am not sure about Kim Deloney, but Susan is definitely drawn into the supernatural via Harry. She saw his advertisement and come to interview Harry. She trick Harry into a soulgaze and thus confirm the existence of the supernatural. She wouldn't have found Harry if not for the advertisement. She would not have trick Harry into a soulgaze if Harry did not proclaim in the advertisement that he is a real wizard.
--- End quote ---
First of all, Susan wasn't drawn into the supernatural world because of Harry... She already worked for a paranormal rag... Upon her soul gaze with Harry she promptly fainted... I've already stated what happened on their first date... She knew very well from that point on just how dangerous hanging out with Harry could be... She made her choices and decided the danger was worth the story and later the love.. Or part of her continued to deny the truth that this kind of knowledge could get her killed, or worse.. In spite of what she had witnessed and by Grave Peril she had witnessed plenty, she still chose to believe that Harry was exaggerating the dangers, and chose to steal that invitation...
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 04, 2019, 11:39:58 AM ---Hold it, you are blaming the potential victim for the crime.. Yes, Harry was the target, but his friends were merely in the wrong place at the wrong time.. That doesn't make it his fault, they chose to be with him. Yes, he may feel some responsibility but that doesn't make it rational, which pushed him to do they type of thing he did to try an protect Butters.
--- End quote ---
I quoted Billy and what he thought about it, not Harry.
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on June 04, 2019, 03:22:04 PM ---I quoted Billy and what he thought about it, not Harry.
--- End quote ---
Who knows in the emotion of the moment, Billy is also the pack leader he feels responsibility for stuff as well... Since he and Georgia were on the island for the showdown with the Skinwalker, he apparently didn't hold too much against Harry...
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---I want you to attempt to see the difference between guilt and responsibility.
--- End quote ---
Here's the definition I found on google:
--- Quote ---re·spon·si·ble
adjective
being the primary cause of something and so able to be blamed or credited for it.
"the gene was responsible for a rare type of eye cancer"
synonyms: accountable, answerable, to blame
antonyms: guiltless
--- End quote ---
Also, could you please respond to the points I have made in response to this claim? I'll list the major ones:
1) the Skinwalker is responsible for its own actions
2) there are several people (the person who sent the Skinwalker, Billy, and Kirby) who are at least as responsible as Harry
3) Harry's actions regarding the sharing or not sharing of information about the supernatural world would not have made a difference, so therefore his lack of sharing information cannot be what makes him responsible
3a) A general briefing about the supernatural world would not have included Skinwalkers, and for good reason
3b) Harry was incapable of sharing any information from the time he used his Sight on the Skinwalker until he had recovered in Will's guest room
--- Quote ---I quoted Billy and what he thought about it, not Harry.
--- End quote ---
And I responded by saying that Will was speaking from a place of ignorance, and admitted that. Therefore, he could not know whether the information Harry might have given him would have made a difference.
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