The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Further proof that black magic is connected to Outsiders
Bad Alias:
I don't. A creature that merely has godly power but isn't immortal isn't a god, and I'm using the DF's "can only be killed on conjunctions, Halloween being an example" definition of immortal. The point is that it is a requirement, so the distinction need not be made. Odin is/was a god. Odin is less powerful than Mab. Either Odin is still a god, or gods can become not gods. If Odin is a god and Mab isn't, then there is something to distinguish them beyond power and immortality.
It might be that godly power isn't a requirement. Old Roman household gods had less power than a powerful DF wizard. Maybe god and immortal are synonymous in the DF and that's all that's required.
Kindler:
I assume that Mab, Winter Queen is not a god, but that another of her Masks probably is. Similarly to the names Harry uses for Mother Winter in Cold Days, Atropos and Skuld. (Side note: my copy of Cold Days spells it "Athropos" rather than "Atropos." I can't find a source for the one in the book; anyone know any Greek, or have a source for the correct spelling? Everywhere I've looked spells it "Atropos."
Anyway, the point is that Vaderrung/Odin's a god, but Kringle isn't. So I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Mab has other personae who are gods. It's hinted so strongly that I can smell it in Skin Game that Mother/Queen/Lady Winter are collectively Hecate.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Kindler on June 05, 2019, 05:01:13 PM ---(Side note: my copy of Cold Days spells it "Athropos" rather than "Atropos." I can't find a source for the one in the book; anyone know any Greek, or have a source for the correct spelling? Everywhere I've looked spells it "Atropos."
--- End quote ---
I suspect a typo... but it may be an alternate spelling?
I google'd "atropos" vs "athropos" and got about 70X as many hits.
--- Quote from: Kindler on June 05, 2019, 05:01:13 PM --- Anyway, the point is that Vaderrung/Odin's a god, but Kringle isn't. So I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that Mab has other personae who are gods. It's hinted so strongly that I can smell it in Skin Game that Mother/Queen/Lady Winter are collectively Hecate.
--- End quote ---
We need to better understand what a "mantle" is and what it isn't. Is Hecate no more than a suite of Mantles now? Are others of the old gods in like state?
If Mab gets killed, does Molly automatically get the Queen's mantle? Does she automatically lose the Lady's mantle, or does she choose a someone as the new Lady & put the Mantle there?
etc...
Here's a WAG -- the Mothers are what's left of the identities/personalities of certain old gods (e.g. Hecate); much of their power is invested into "mantles" which, for whatever reason, they can no longer wield. So other beings are delegated to wield the mantles.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Kindler on June 05, 2019, 05:01:13 PM ---[1.] Everywhere I've looked spells it "Atropos."
[2.] Anyway, the point is that Vaderrung/Odin's a god, but Kringle isn't. ... [3.] It's hinted so strongly that I can smell it in Skin Game that Mother/Queen/Lady Winter are collectively Hecate.
--- End quote ---
1. Same.
2. I'm not sure Vaderrung/Odin is a god because he's not immortal (or maybe immortal isn't an element of godhood?).
3. I think it is generally agreed by most of us here that all six Queens are Hecate in some manner.
kbrizzle:
I think to be a god in the DV, one has to be able to channel the belief of followers into power. This is one of the main reasons that Mab is the most powerful Demi-god around currently - most of the older gods are in ‘retirement’ since belief in religion has waned over time. As Fae, Mab does not need followers - likely the reason Odin created the Kringle persona.
Additionally, she was once mortal & I’m unsure about beings like Hades.
The reason TWG uses the Judeo-Christian divine infrastructure (like angels etc) is because Abrahamic religions are & have been the most prominent over the last 1500 years or so.
@g33k
I believe mantle is like an office in the mortal world. For example President of the US - while any person occupying that office becomes vastly more powerful than an average citizen, it also comes with many personal limitations, responsibilities & duties. It is a difficult job & most people are not up to it - like many of the mantles we’ve seen.
I think each mantle is different & as a result is powered somewhat uniquely (& affects the users accordingly).
To answer your question about Mab’s succession - yes Molly becomes WQ while the WL mantle moves to the closest ‘like’ vessel. This is clearly inefficient as evidenced by Lily becoming SL even though she doesn’t really want to.
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