The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I think Murphy is going to get killed here is why
kbrizzle:
@nadia
Fair enough, perhaps instead of the word ‘judge’, I should’ve said understood. Because of his Christian morality, Michael is inherently distrustful of anything that isn’t faith magic (no doubt his experiences in fighting non-Denarian evil like rescuing Charity have made an impact). While his protestations against Harry’s use of magic declines over the series, I always got the feeling that Michael trusts Harry’s integrity to not get corrupted by the forces he is wielding rather than believing that magic is generally ok.
I also completely agree that Butters’ reasoning for his mistrust was childish in its lack of complexity & nuance, which is odd because Butters is quite intelligent. I do hope that he ends up paying for his stupidity in SG at some point. While his actions put Murphy on a path to realize she wasn’t right for the Swords, the way it was done was downright silly - especially the fact that Harry takes the blame for it.
@Mira
Completely agree - the way things went down with Nic in SG will weigh on Murphy in the next few books for sure. It will likely add some depth to her character since I foresee her role in the series going forward changing. Perhaps this will be the pivot used. Perhaps it will make her less annoying as well :-)
@huangjimmy
While I get your point that Michael is still a fallible human being, I think @nadia is right in pointing out that Michael is basically as close to a saintly person as we are going to get in the DV. I also agree with your point that given the info they had, Murphy, Butters & Michael we’re right to be suspicious of Harry in CD, SG & SmF respectively.
I can’t really think of any serious mistakes made by Michael in the series either, which is odd because almost every other character makes some big ones (& generally pays for it).
huangjimmy108:
--- Quote from: g33k on May 27, 2019, 05:26:42 AM ---Michael was right.
Or rather, he WOULD have been right, for any other wizard.
As Michael explained too Harry, ALL their (extensive, albeit incomplete) records show that corruption is inevitable, that the ONLY people who escape are those who surrender the coins. Harry points out that the records ARE incomplete, so they cannot REALLY know...
But Michael was right. By Lash's testimony, NOBODY in Lasciel's millennia of experience had EVER resisted temptation even a fraction so long as Harry had. Even Nicodemus -- and Anduriel! -- presumed Harry was still under Lash's sway, having the Fallen-shadow disable Harry... And then turn his (their!) back, confident that Harry would be no threat. That is NOT an error that careful players like Nic & Andy make -- if they had EVER met a mortal who could hold out so long, they'd have kept an eye on Harry in that moment.
Maybe "Starborn" is just shorthand for "Mythic Levels of Stubborn," or maybe Harry is too stupid to quit. But whatever it is, Harry did the impossible, and Michael was right to suspect him, right to suggest he abandon his magic.
--- End quote ---
And according to this logic, Butters would have been right too. No one could ever resist the corruption of the winter knight mantle after all. It is right for Butters to be suspicious. For that matter, if this logic is used, Murphy is right to suspect Harry and forbid him from handling the Holy swords.
You see. Michael's suspicion in book 8 and book 10. Murphy's action in book 14 and Butters's in book 15, all of them has the same nature. They are face with a previously uncontestable fact. No one could resist the coin corruption unless that person surrenders the coin. No one could stay in corrupted once he or she become a winter knight. No one could come back from the dead. All the records confirm it. Bob is dead certain about it.
It is not their fault Harry keep doing the impossible.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---And according to this logic, Butters would have been right too. No one could ever resist the corruption of the winter knight mantle after all. It is right for Butters to be suspicious. For that matter, if this logic is used, Murphy is right to suspect Harry and forbid him from handling the Holy swords.
You see. Michael's suspicion in book 8 and book 10. Murphy's action in book 14 and Butters's in book 15, all of them has the same nature. They are face with a previously uncontestable fact. No one could resist the coin corruption unless that person surrenders the coin. No one could stay in corrupted once he or she become a winter knight. No one could come back from the dead. All the records confirm it. Bob is dead certain about it.
It is not their fault Harry keep doing the impossible.
--- End quote ---
The difference between Michael's suspicion, Murphy's suspicion, and Butters' suspicion is this:
-Michael's suspicion is based on good logic and the facts at his disposal. The actions he takes were such that they reduce the chances both of his suspicions coming to pass and of other harm being done. When he has a way to gain more evidence, he employs it, and when a flaw in his logic is made clear to him, he accepts it and changes his position.
-Murphy's suspicion, to me at least, appears as though it may not even exist. Her actions do not reflect consistency, and do appear manipulative. Given this, her reasoning for being suspicious is undermined by her actions. In fact, her actions make it more likely that her suspicions, if indeed they exist, will come true, and further cause clear harm.
-Butters' suspicion is based on faulty logic. He does not attempt to gain more evidence even when it would be simple for him to do so, and in fact ignores evidence that he does have because it contradicts his conclusions. When someone attempts to speak to him about problems with his beliefs and with actions that may arise from them, he disregards their arguments. His actions are such that they both make it more likely that his suspicions will come to pass and also cause more harm.
morriswalters:
I just wanted to point out that Butter's biggest problem is that his advisor is Bob.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---I just wanted to point out that Butter's biggest problem is that his advisor is Bob.
--- End quote ---
How is that his biggest problem?
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