The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Hellfire as two powers
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 11, 2019, 11:37:04 PM ---Yes, but I'm having trouble thinking of things that would work here, so I'm looking for ideas. That's why I posted this. If I just wanted to come up with something on my own, I wouldn't have bothered.
--- End quote ---
Oh, I thought you were asking what the existing lore suggested.
...I don't really have any good ideas off-hand, unfortunately.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 11, 2019, 11:37:04 PM ---Yeah, that's why I want the two powers to work together. If they have a multiplicative effect, it should be more efficient.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure that's feasible. This game doesn't really have multiplicative effects, and I think adding them could get screwy.
If the two variants overlap, it's probably fair to make one of them cost only 1 Refresh if you have the other. Sort of like how normal Sponsored Magic gets cheaper if you've got Evocation and Thaumaturgy. Then you're basically just buying the Extra Benefit as a stunt. Easier to justify, optimization-wise.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 11, 2019, 11:37:04 PM ---Refresh may not exist in-universe, but free will does. I have no trouble imagining that a wizard is going to have an easier time saying "I'm not going to endanger my free will to gain the ability to turn into a demon-bear! That wouldn't even be all that helpful," than saying "I'm not going to endanger my free will to gain awesome magical abilities which will help me protect myself and those I care about, defeat my enemies, and generally be extremely useful."
--- End quote ---
The demon bear thing is actually pretty great, though. It just costs, like, fifteen Refresh. And I don't think the numerical value there corresponds to anything in-setting.
For the magic-ier Denarians, I'd be inclined to say that Denarians can just give their hosts Refinements and other classic spellcasting bonuses.
g33k:
I think it's worth noting that the characters are actually not wargame pieces; that means they have wants and needs, temptations and weaknesses, that won't translate well to players saying "I can see taking that deal!"
Offer an addict a hit -- at the peak of their withdrawal misery -- and they'll sell their soul for it, no lasting benefit nor sensible cost/benefit analysis will be considered!
Similarly: just because there is Hellfire in the rulebook (soul-fueled or Hell-fueled), it doesn't mean that, in-character, there is any way to get it other than picking up one of the blackened denarii. AFAIK that's the only mechanism shown in Jim Butcher's fiction, and... I don't recall anything else in the DFRPG (and haven't got DFA), but the table consensus and/or GM plans can always create other means.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---I think it's worth noting that the characters are actually not wargame pieces; that means they have wants and needs, temptations and weaknesses, that won't translate well to players saying "I can see taking that deal!"
Offer an addict a hit -- at the peak of their withdrawal misery -- and they'll sell their soul for it, no lasting benefit nor sensible cost/benefit analysis will be considered!
--- End quote ---
True, but the Fallen seem to tailor their temptations to the individual person that they're tempting. Lasciel's shadow, for example, offered Harry knowledge, magical power, and help in protecting innocents. She did not offer him a way to become as beautiful/handsome as Thomas and unlimited wealth, because that wouldn't have been particularly tempting for Harry.
--- Quote ---Similarly: just because there is Hellfire in the rulebook (soul-fueled or Hell-fueled), it doesn't mean that, in-character, there is any way to get it other than picking up one of the blackened denarii. AFAIK that's the only mechanism shown in Jim Butcher's fiction, and... I don't recall anything else in the DFRPG (and haven't got DFA), but the table consensus and/or GM plans can always create other means.
--- End quote ---
True. But 1) there might be other ways that Harry doesn't know about--it's not like he's done much research on the subject; and 2) I'm talking about a character being tempted by a blackened denarius, so I'm not sure how this is relevant.
g33k:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 14, 2019, 03:02:48 AM ---True, but the Fallen seem to tailor their temptations to the individual person that they're tempting. Lasciel's shadow, for example, offered Harry knowledge, magical power, and help in protecting innocents. She did not offer him a way to become as beautiful/handsome as Thomas and unlimited wealth, because that wouldn't have been particularly tempting for Harry.
--- End quote ---
The Denarians have an agenda in the world, and it's NOT collecting the souls of their bearers. I believe they preferentially target those who already have an urge to power, toward being effectual actors in the world, because they can leverage that to their own ends.
That said, they have no difficulty in playing a "long game" for years or decades (or centuries!), or going with shallow vessels who have trivial wants and needs, and no "leverage" in the world: the demonic equivalent of a short "hookup" with no relationship!
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 14, 2019, 03:02:48 AM --- But 1) there might be other ways that Harry doesn't know about--it's not like he's done much research on the subject
--- End quote ---
True enough. Canon never says you CAN get hellfire another way; but equally, canon never says you CANNOT. (also, even if Harry had an opinion in the books, we KNOW Jim Butcher uses Harry to "lie" to the audience -- Harry is perfectly capable of being wrong (in fact, he figures out at least one "wrong answer" in several novels, before he finds the right one...) I would undoubtedly consider Hellfire-without-Denarians a per-table / per-campaign consideration, leaning toward "what do the players think would be most fun?" (noting that as players-plural, because others at the table might have strong opinions about hellfire; no one player's concept should ruin another player's fun).
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on April 14, 2019, 03:02:48 AM --- and 2) I'm talking about a character being tempted by a blackened denarius, so I'm not sure how this is relevant.
--- End quote ---
Maybe I don't understood. I thought your suggestion was that they somehow had the goodies a Denarian could offer, so why pick up a coin?
AFAIK: if they never took up the coin, the Denarian within it cannot tempt them (nor empower them).
I think those powers are a big part of the temptation to take up the coins (which make it seem like other channels to gain hellfire are likely to be harder to find, harder to learn, etc).
You want insta-power? Here. 8)
Or you could go study for a decade or more under a master you can be CERTAIN is corrupted by Hell itself. :o
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---The Denarians have an agenda in the world, and it's NOT collecting the souls of their bearers. I believe they preferentially target those who already have an urge to power, toward being effectual actors in the world, because they can leverage that to their own ends.
That said, they have no difficulty in playing a "long game" for years or decades (or centuries!), or going with shallow vessels who have trivial wants and needs, and no "leverage" in the world: the demonic equivalent of a short "hookup" with no relationship!
--- End quote ---
True. But I'm pretty sure they get annoyed if they don't manage to collect their bearers' souls.
--- Quote ---Maybe I don't understood. I thought your suggestion was that they somehow had the goodies a Denarian could offer, so why pick up a coin?
AFAIK: if they never took up the coin, the Denarian within it cannot tempt them (nor empower them).
I think those powers are a big part of the temptation to take up the coins (which make it seem like other channels to gain hellfire are likely to be harder to find, harder to learn, etc).
--- End quote ---
Sorry for being unclear. I was talking about having a Denarian shadow vs picking up the coin.
Incidentally, what does AFAIK stand for?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version