The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Curious passage in Summer Knight. Justin evidence?

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Mira:

--- Quote from: Yuillegan on April 08, 2019, 01:25:43 PM ---I was going to respond to a lot of this, then ended up writing up a massive theory. I will link it:

Yes, they do but the act kills them - it is all the energy they have left. But depending on how they can use that energy based on talent, skill and knowledge the difference might be between killing an individual or a room and nuking a small fortress (like Simon). Frequently described by Harry as being able to level several city blocks (see Grave Peril I think). While technically it doesn't mean you will die (the "Death" in Death Curse is about the caster dying, not the target), it is all about what you use that last spell for. So if all you can manage is purple warts or die alone, sucks to be you. Because some like Margaret Le Fay realise that you can do a lot more with it, like shut down an enemies power when you can't kill them.

--- End quote ---

You miss my point, or perhaps I wasn't very good at making it...  Harry did the killing, he didn't throw a death curse... That's the last act of the one dying.  If anyone was going to throw a death curse it would have been Justin, since he was the one dying... Unless of course he died instantly before he could throw it at Harry... Or for some reason he did want to...

Cozarkian:

--- Quote from: exartiem on April 05, 2019, 11:34:22 PM ---There is at least one WOJ where he has stated categorically that Justin is dead, with an emphasis on DEAD.  However, as established especially in Dead Beat and Ghost Story, being dead does not necessarily mean you are out of the game.
--- End quote ---

I really don't know what I was thinking, you are right. I believe the quote was Justin is dead, D-E-D (deliberately mispelled) dead. Also, if I recall, when asked if Justin was as dead as Harry, JB said "Oh, at least that dead."

Thus, my theory is bunk, Justin did die in the fire. However, that doesn't mean he didn't somehow help Elaine escape to the NN or temporarily take over Elaine's body somehow and makee deals with Summer that Elaine was then bound to honor, since it was her body that made the deal. There's just too much mention of Justin to be a deceased bad-guy mentor that we won't see again, and to much mystery about Elaine for her disappearance to be as simple as "I ran away" and got caught up with Summer by happenstance.

Cozarkian:

--- Quote from: Mira on April 08, 2019, 09:21:52 PM ---You miss my point, or perhaps I wasn't very good at making it...  Harry did the killing, he didn't throw a death curse... That's the last act of the one dying.  If anyone was going to throw a death curse it would have been Justin, since he was the one dying... Unless of course he died instantly before he could throw it at Harry... Or for some reason he did want to...

--- End quote ---

I note Corpsetaker had a death without an apparent death curse. Was it actually Corpsetaker's death curse that allowed her to enter the spirit world and avoid what comes next? I don't know but if it was and Justin also didn't throw a death curse . . .

exartiem:

--- Quote from: LordDragonFire on April 07, 2019, 07:02:50 AM ---When was it said that Justin was a skilled necromancer?

--- End quote ---

It wasn't, directly.  But I made an assumption based on the fact that Justin was a Warden who spent decades, at least, hunting and fighting necromancers, including Kemmler himself.  He would have learned enough about necromancy in order to be able to fight it.  He had been corrupted (or whatever) while fighting necromancers, thus it is likely that he would have picked up some of their tricks.

Also, since he was going to be betraying the WC and the Wardens, he would see great value in necromantic ways of avoiding death.  It just makes sense.

Yuillegan:

--- Quote from: Mira on April 08, 2019, 09:21:52 PM ---You miss my point, or perhaps I wasn't very good at making it...  Harry did the killing, he didn't throw a death curse... That's the last act of the one dying.  If anyone was going to throw a death curse it would have been Justin, since he was the one dying... Unless of course he died instantly before he could throw it at Harry... Or for some reason he did want to...

--- End quote ---

I think we can both agree on the process of a Death Curse then. My point is exactly that, Justin did not throw a Death Curse which is very strange. We do not know exactly how Justin died or what killed him, though the implication in the text was that Harry's magical fire did it during their duel. Which generally I think would not kill a person fast enough to stop them performing a Death Curse (unless it was like Luccio's heat ray through the brain).

Cozarkian, thank you. That quote from JB was exactly one I was looking for. I mean seriously does he have to spell it out? Your theory is plausable, though of course we have no real way of knowing how exactly Justin came back from his body death. But you are exactly right; there is too much emotional weight with him as a character, and Elaine, and too many references to him not to use him as such. Elaine almost certainly did not just stumble into Summer. And remember, there is an ongoing undertone that Summer are really trying to kill Harry, and seem to have very odd links to the bad guys.

Corpsetaker's death is an interesting case study. I think because Harry shoots him/her in the back of the head with no warning is the most likely reason that there was no Death Curse leveled at them. Whether Corpsetaker used a Death Curse as a means of continuing in the Between is another matter. Although I would point out, it was not necessary at all for Dresden's shade/soul to do such a thing to be able to be a part of events and still have a form of magic. He did have some pretty top-tier help though, and his body hadn't died so there are some differences. Though as Mab says, "Death is a spectrum, not a line". So my theory is that even if Justin had "died" it doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to come back again through his knowledge of Necromancy (assuming he is Cowl/can perform). I think it is reasonably apparent in the DV that you don't instantly go to beyond, or cease to exist. You soul/spirit carries on and exists and functions at a higher level. Which makes sense in a story that involves Necromancy and multiple afterlife destinations.

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