The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Harry lie to Michael, or worse?
Bad Alias:
I find nadia.skylark's posts quite insightful and tend to agree with her analysis.
I agree with that Harry took the best, perhaps only, overall option. Harry did manipulate Susan. I don't think he needed to.
Susan probably wasn't going to get the chance to watch anyone die. Once Maggie died, Susan would too.
It doesn't matter whether or not we think Harry did a terrible thing at Chichen Itza. Harry does. People who survive accidents that were in no way there fault often feel guilty. Susan died because of Harry, one way or another. (I mean that in a cause and effect sort of way, not morally). He's going to feel guilty and blame himself. That's Harry.
My position can be summed up in three points. 1. Harry did what he had to at Chichen Itza. 2. He is going to feel guilty about it no matter how right or wrong I am in point 1. 3. He probably doesn't remember it exactly right. He did suffer serious trauma during and after.
Mira:
--- Quote ---It doesn't matter whether or not we think Harry did a terrible thing at Chichen Itza. Harry does. People who survive accidents that were in no way there fault often feel guilty. Susan died because of Harry, one way or another. (I mean that in a cause and effect sort of way, not morally). He's going to feel guilty and blame himself. That's Harry.
--- End quote ---
Susan didn't die because of Harry, the seeds of her death were planted way back in Storm Front, long before Harry. She liked to write about the supernatural, expose it, used Harry, though yeah came to love him, to gain fame and fortune in her career... She gave lip service to believing what she saw and experienced but she never paid it enough respect, so like a great many dangerous things it bit her in the ass... Even if she had never met Harry in my opinion Susan was destined to die by some supernatural means or another simply because brave as she was and smart as she was, she was always in over her head.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---Susan didn't die because of Harry, the seeds of her death were planted way back in Storm Front, long before Harry. She liked to write about the supernatural, expose it, used Harry, though yeah came to love him, to gain fame and fortune in her career... She gave lip service to believing what she saw and experienced but she never paid it enough respect, so like a great many dangerous things it bit her in the ass... Even if she had never met Harry in my opinion Susan was destined to die by some supernatural means or another simply because brave as she was and smart as she was, she was always in over her head.
--- End quote ---
I agree with you. However, I'm fairly certain that Harry wouldn't.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on February 19, 2019, 10:28:11 PM --- Susan didn't die because of Harry, the seeds of her death were planted way back in Storm Front, long before Harry. She liked to write about the supernatural, expose it, used Harry, though yeah came to love him, to gain fame and fortune in her career... She gave lip service to believing what she saw and experienced but she never paid it enough respect, so like a great many dangerous things it bit her in the ass... Even if she had never met Harry in my opinion Susan was destined to die by some supernatural means or another simply because brave as she was and smart as she was, she was always in over her head.
--- End quote ---
If she never got involved with Harry, she may very well never have had the chance to get involved enough with the supernatural to get killed. Or she could have learned about them slow enough to respect the danger. Harry gave her access.
If she hadn't had a child with Harry, she could have continued to fight the Red Court at arms length instead of a direct confrontation.
Susan is at fault for what happened to her in Grave Peril. She was stupid to ignore Harry saying it was dangerous. The woman who replaced Susan hasn't gotten into any serious trouble in part because Harry keeps her at arms length because of what happened with Susan.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Lady Inez on February 15, 2019, 04:17:11 PM ---The other thread on Michael and lies reminded me of something that's been bothering me since Skin Game. When he confesses to Michael what happened at Chichen Itza, does Harry intentionally lie about Martin having enraged Susan with knowledge of his betrayal when in fact Harry forced her to face that and thus set off her rage, leading to her death? Or, worse, is he lying to himself, possibly with the help of the mantle, and so he remembers the events in a way that makes him seem slightly less guilty? Is Harry ashamed of having weaponized Susan's condition in that moment, but craving Michael's approval and forgiveness, or has he insulated himself from what he did? I was really surprised that he didn't tell Michael the truth later in the book, forcing a moment of soul searching in Michael; that doesn't happen, so I'm not certain how to read his version of things.
--- End quote ---
Much as Harry jumped on helping him implement it out of necessity at the last moment, it was still Martin's plan that Susan should kill him and turn. Harry caught that in the soulgaze with Martin; that why he asked Martin how the Reds found Maggie.
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