The Dresden Files > DFRPG
thoughts on winning the war with the Outsiders
g33k:
I don't see "winning" the war, really. You'd have to end the threat of the Outsiders.
Which either means bringing them all into Creation & killing/imprisoning them here -- and all the mommy-Outsiders, too, so they can't make more of them Out There -- or taking the war Outside and defeating them there.
I don't really see any of that happening; not even with the Demonreach imprisonment system.
I don't expect the Outsiders to even follow the normal-ish rules that would allow tech to be all that advantageous. Marginally so, maybe; but if I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that a belly full o' lead (or inherited silver) wouldn't slow down the average Outsider much, if any.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 21, 2019, 08:24:23 AM ---Despite the description we get of what is functionally a pre-gunpowder battle? With unit formations, maneuvers, an ambush?
--- End quote ---
Despite that.
Ultimately, this is a battle between cosmic forces. It's not reasonable to treat it as a normal war.
Salusen:
Isn't the only plausible way to defeat the Outsiders is to forget them? Seems like the truly only exist within mortal knowledge. So if humans were to totally forget them, they would fade to Oblivion.
On the other hand...
backseat_adventurer:
I hope people don't mind me posting since it's been a while but I'm new and this topic really grabbed my interest.
To be honest, I'm not sure if the war with the Outside is one we want to see won. By 'we' I mean not just us as readers but also the beings living in the Dresdenverse.
So why not for us readers? It goes back to our love of the Dresdenverse. We love it as it is with all the power struggles, factions and supernatural goings-on. Massively change the setting and suddenly fans lose a large part of what made them fans. This doesn't discount fans using AUs in games and fanfic or inventing new struggles for the 'new' world but still, it's a bit of a damper on things. In the back of your mind you always know the WoJ nixed the world you love. Or at least greatly changed its paradigm.
Now for the characters in-world. To be honest, if the Outside is permanently barred from the world forevermore, we'd better hope the Faerie Courts and the bulk of the supernatural nasties get squashed in the process. Otherwise... well, where is Mab going to get her kicks? Titania would have to get into it and all the consequences of one Court winning would happen. Other supernatural factions would breakdown or form causing mass carnage over years. Maybe God intercedes, maybe a struggle for power erupts, maybe magic is outed, etc. Now, even if the supernaturals get eradicated (and I really dislike the shades of genocide here), what happens later on? Somehow I doubt the Outsiders are going to be cowed for long and they have all eternity. Earth probably won't be ready for recommencement and will be devoid of their protections. Either way you look at it, for the average person, or even our favorite characters, 'winning' the Outsider War, isn't necessarily a good thing.
The series really promotes the concept of a supernatural 'balance of power'. The write-up for Las Vegas in the Paranet Papers really typifies this. The series is also strongly behind the concept of freewill in that you can do what you want... at a price. Sometimes the price is higher than you know and there will be consequences. Given that Harry has a tendency to upend the status quo, to questionable benefit, I think we'll probably see a huge change in the status of the War. Will it be won? A better seal placed on the Gates? Who knows.
I just hope that the ending doesn't completely upend the Dresdenverse. Add new conflicts, new goals? Great! Just not make it unrecognizable with a Pyrrhic victory.
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: backseat_adventurer on March 02, 2019, 10:33:07 PM ---I hope people don't mind me posting since it's been a while but I'm new and this topic really grabbed my interest.
--- End quote ---
Forum being as quiet as it is, there's no need to worry about necromancy.
--- Quote from: backseat_adventurer on March 02, 2019, 10:33:07 PM ---To be honest, I'm not sure if the war with the Outside is one we want to see won. By 'we' I mean not just us as readers but also the beings living in the Dresdenverse.
So why not for us readers? It goes back to our love of the Dresdenverse. We love it as it is with all the power struggles, factions and supernatural goings-on. Massively change the setting and suddenly fans lose a large part of what made them fans. This doesn't discount fans using AUs in games and fanfic or inventing new struggles for the 'new' world but still, it's a bit of a damper on things. In the back of your mind you always know the WoJ nixed the world you love. Or at least greatly changed its paradigm.
Now for the characters in-world. To be honest, if the Outside is permanently barred from the world forevermore, we'd better hope the Faerie Courts and the bulk of the supernatural nasties get squashed in the process. Otherwise... well, where is Mab going to get her kicks? Titania would have to get into it and all the consequences of one Court winning would happen. Other supernatural factions would breakdown or form causing mass carnage over years. Maybe God intercedes, maybe a struggle for power erupts, maybe magic is outed, etc. Now, even if the supernaturals get eradicated (and I really dislike the shades of genocide here), what happens later on? Somehow I doubt the Outsiders are going to be cowed for long and they have all eternity. Earth probably won't be ready for recommencement and will be devoid of their protections. Either way you look at it, for the average person, or even our favorite characters, 'winning' the Outsider War, isn't necessarily a good thing.
The series really promotes the concept of a supernatural 'balance of power'. The write-up for Las Vegas in the Paranet Papers really typifies this. The series is also strongly behind the concept of freewill in that you can do what you want... at a price. Sometimes the price is higher than you know and there will be consequences. Given that Harry has a tendency to upend the status quo, to questionable benefit, I think we'll probably see a huge change in the status of the War. Will it be won? A better seal placed on the Gates? Who knows.
I just hope that the ending doesn't completely upend the Dresdenverse. Add new conflicts, new goals? Great! Just not make it unrecognizable with a Pyrrhic victory.
--- End quote ---
One way or another, I think the setting's gonna be made unrecognisable. Jim has talked many times about the "big apocalyptic trilogy" at the end of the series, after all.
That aside, the Outside seems to be outside (no pun intended) the normal balance-of-power considerations. It's just plain bad. It's shown no redeeming qualities, and Outsiders seem inhuman enough that totally eradicating them wouldn't be particularly similar to genocide. So if I were a Dresdenverse mortal, I'd definitely want it gone.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version