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thoughts on winning the war with the Outsiders

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whitelaughter:
In the latest collection of short stories, Mab calmly lets Molly know that if Molly wants the tithe/tiend stopped, she has to work out how to end the war with the Outsiders.

Brutal, but fair - and raising the question: can the war be won?

The Unseelie protect us from the Outsiders, the Seelie from the Unseelie, so there is the depressing possibility that there is something even worse being held back by the Outsiders, making a true victory impossible.

But assuming that is not the case, or allowing for the possibility of becoming strong enough to take on the new threat:

- Mab doesn't understand technology. Introducing her to 'ferromancy' and the force multipliers thus available could be interesting. Trolls armed with machine guns would be a game changer.

- domains can be created within the Never Never, with their own powers. Could micro-domains bec created at the borders of reality, using those rules to create weapons? Say, a domains that the piles of bones could fall into, keep falling until their speed is many multiples of the speed of sound, and then leave the domain, directed at the advancing armies of Outsiders.

- Mab's armies are probably constantly being driven insane by the Laws: they'll be racking up large amounts of knowledge of the Outside, for one thing. Granted that few of the troops will live long enough for that to be a problem, but (hopefully) some do, and if not improveed weapons and armour will change that.
A useful IoP would be one that the Outsider could put their Lawbreaker levels into, loaning them to newbie troops to help the youngsters survive, and allowing the veterans to keep their sanity a bit longer.

Anything I've missed?

Sanctaphrax:

--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 16, 2019, 06:23:54 AM ---Anything I've missed?
--- End quote ---

Well, God is the obvious one.

And then there's magic. Dresden is apparently a "starborn", which gives him some power over Outsiders. Perhaps whatever principle or process makes that possible can be pushed further.

Heroic action is another possibility. Maybe all that's needed is the right person, in the right place, at the right time. We really know nothing about how the Outside works, after all.


--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 16, 2019, 06:23:54 AM ---- Mab doesn't understand technology. Introducing her to 'ferromancy' and the force multipliers thus available could be interesting. Trolls armed with machine guns would be a game changer.
--- End quote ---

Possible. Thematically, it'd make some sense. Human ingenuity defeats primordial chaos.


--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 16, 2019, 06:23:54 AM ---- domains can be created within the Never Never, with their own powers. Could micro-domains bec created at the borders of reality, using those rules to create weapons? Say, a domains that the piles of bones could fall into, keep falling until their speed is many multiples of the speed of sound, and then leave the domain, directed at the advancing armies of Outsiders.
--- End quote ---

I'm pretty sure nothing like this will happen, though. A weird physics trick is not likely to end a cosmic struggle. I mean, narratively that's just totally unsatisfying.


--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 16, 2019, 06:23:54 AM ---- Mab's armies are probably constantly being driven insane by the Laws: they'll be racking up large amounts of knowledge of the Outside, for one thing. Granted that few of the troops will live long enough for that to be a problem, but (hopefully) some do, and if not improveed weapons and armour will change that.
--- End quote ---

The Laws are a mortal thing, I don't think they matter at all to faerie troops.

whitelaughter:

--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2019, 12:42:19 PM ---Well, God is the obvious one.

--- End quote ---
Except that the Dresdenverse God seems solely interested in protecting free will, which neither side has; Mab regards him as 'the White God' ie merely a god of morality, not the Creator, so there's no particularly reason why He should come to her aid.
However, Molly might want to deal directly with Uriel: and that could get interesting.



--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2019, 12:42:19 PM ---And then there's magic. Dresden is apparently a "starborn", which gives him some power over Outsiders. Perhaps whatever principle or process makes that possible can be pushed further.

--- End quote ---
Sheer numbers come into play here. Wizards are rare; the scale of the one battle Dresden saw blew his mind.


--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2019, 12:42:19 PM ---Heroic action is another possibility. Maybe all that's needed is the right person, in the right place, at the right time. We really know nothing about how the Outside works, after all.

--- End quote ---
Jim might well write something like that, but - numbers. It's frankly unbelievable.


--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2019, 12:42:19 PM ---I'm pretty sure nothing like this will happen, though. A weird physics trick is not likely to end a cosmic struggle. I mean, narratively that's just totally unsatisfying.
--- End quote ---
Wars tend to be like that. Granted, nothing like this is likely to occur in the series, but armies being slaughtered by new developments is historically common.



--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 16, 2019, 12:42:19 PM ---The Laws are a mortal thing, I don't think they matter at all to faerie troops.

--- End quote ---
Possibly not, but given that the Fae are often ex-mortals, I wouldn't bank on it. If nothing else, it might be possibly to siphon Lawbreaking off mortals to strengthen Fae troops.

Sanctaphrax:

--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 20, 2019, 01:49:41 PM ---Except that the Dresdenverse God seems solely interested in protecting free will, which neither side has; Mab regards him as 'the White God' ie merely a god of morality, not the Creator, so there's no particularly reason why He should come to her aid.
--- End quote ---

The Outside is, ultimately, after humanity.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Outside defeated Winter and was then destroyed by God or humanity.


--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 20, 2019, 01:49:41 PM ---Sheer numbers come into play here. Wizards are rare; the scale of the one battle Dresden saw blew his mind.

...

Jim might well write something like that, but - numbers. It's frankly unbelievable.
--- End quote ---

Numbers, shmumbers.

Look at how the Red Court went down.


--- Quote from: whitelaughter on January 20, 2019, 01:49:41 PM ---Wars tend to be like that. Granted, nothing like this is likely to occur in the series, but armies being slaughtered by new developments is historically common.
--- End quote ---

The war between inside and Outside isn't so similar to historical wars.

If it was decided by new developments, they wouldn't take the form of magitechnological advances.

whitelaughter:

--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on January 20, 2019, 02:50:06 PM ---The war between inside and Outside isn't so similar to historical wars.

--- End quote ---
Despite the description we get of what is functionally a pre-gunpowder battle? With unit formations, maneuvers, an ambush?

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