The Death of Margaret Le Fay

[groinkick]

Remember the image of Thomas, and the mirror?  That he was fighting the demon?  My guess is that Maggie created a barrier between Raith, and his demon.  If you got to see in his mind it would be a mirror where they were fighting to connect but could not.

[peregrine]

Remember the image of Thomas, and the mirror?  That he was fighting the demon?  My guess is that Maggie created a barrier between Raith, and his demon.  If you got to see in his mind it would be a mirror where they were fighting to connect but could not.

I'm gonna have to disagree.  Raith can still tap into his demon, it's just that the demon can't tap into the rest of the outside world.  So Raith can use his powers, but he can't replenish them, so he's got to be very careful when using what limited reservoir of power he has remaining.

[groinkick]

I'm gonna have to disagree.  Raith can still tap into his demon, it's just that the demon can't tap into the rest of the outside world.  So Raith can use his powers, but he can't replenish them, so he's got to be very careful when using what limited reservoir of power he has remaining.

He may be able to tap into it's powers but something is keeping it from feeding.  I'm thinking it's this barrier. 

[peregrine]

Yeah, but my point is the barrier is between the demon and the world, not between the demon and Raith.

[Avernite]

It is possible that the Death Curse and proposed Birth Curse (or whatever, I'm just paralleling here) were entirely separate things, too. Harry's birth may have been organized as a ritual, for example.

To really open up a can of worms, recall that Harry was born on Halloween, a day during which states of power are in flux; immortals can die poimanently (sometimes I like to type with a Stooge accent), for example. So it's possible that power was generated and passed on to Harry from his birth. (I've always thought it a bit convenient that Harry was such a slugger in terms of raw ability. Ebenezer's a brawler, and he's got a ton of power, but we don't know what Margaret was capable of, nor where her strengths were; she may have been a Molly or Elaine equivalent (better at delicate control than brute forcing things). So I think it's possible that power was passed on somehow.)

It is possible; from Margaret's description she never seemed a slouch, among the White Council I would expect her at least in the top 50  famous/infamous/notorious (and probably top 10 outside senior official functions like Senior Council, Warden Captain, ...). Of course this doesn't have to translate directly to power, but it seems unlikely she was one of the weak Wizards.

But Harry's power, by any indication, is truly for the highest ranks - and I would argue his control, while not on Elaine's or Molly's level, has been getting far better through the series. Moving a top-tier wizard into more-or-less-first through a ritual would seem like something you might do if you wanted said Wizard to save reality.

[Wizard Sibelis]

Remember the image of Thomas, and the mirror?  That he was fighting the demon?  My guess is that Maggie created a barrier between Raith, and his demon.  If you got to see in his mind it would be a mirror where they were fighting to connect but could not.

Na the mirror is an aspect of reality, or between reality I might say. It's one reason why I think Mirror Mirror is called such when he pulls Harry into his reality. It's through a metaphysical mirror. Imo everybody has that mirror, it's very indicative of the gateway that exists inside us that our souls would pass through in certain mythos.

[morriswalters]

I'm guessing that she used Thomas to create the binding she used on the King.  Certainly Thomas supplied the power to keep it active after her death.  Say that he was the vector.  She couldn't attack directly so she attacked Raith through his living male heir.  Raith may have been aware of this avenue of attack since he always killed his male heirs.  If you're enamored of the mirror metaphor, say she attacked Raith's demon through the mirror.   As long as that connection to the demon side was alive in Thomas she could bind the demon even if she couldn't kill Raith.  The idea is simple and it's probably wrong.  But I like it anyway.

edit
I wonder if Malcolm was a fae halfling who chose to be human.  Maybe a son of Lea.  Goofy idea, but I throw it out there.  It creates a connection between Lea and Margaret  and would go a long ways towards explaining Lea's affection for Harry.

[Mr. Death]

Na the mirror is an aspect of reality, or between reality I might say. It's one reason why I think Mirror Mirror is called such when he pulls Harry into his reality. It's through a metaphysical mirror. Imo everybody has that mirror, it's very indicative of the gateway that exists inside us that our souls would pass through in certain mythos.

The mirror seen in Thomas's soul probably has nothing to do with other realities, because it's in his soul.

And the real reason it's called Mirror Mirror is that's the title of the Star Trek episode that introduced Beard Spock. I'm sure there'll be an in-universe reason for it as well, and it would make sense thematically if mirrors (already established in the series as gateways) are in fact how he's pulled through, but I seriously doubt the image in Thomas's soul has anything to do with it.

I'm guessing that she used Thomas to create the binding she used on the King.  Certainly Thomas supplied the power to keep it active after her death.  Say that he was the vector.  She couldn't attack directly so she attacked Raith through his living male heir.  Raith may have been aware of this avenue of attack since he always killed his male heirs.  If you're enamored of the mirror metaphor, say she attacked Raith's demon through the mirror.   As long as that connection to the demon side was alive in Thomas she could bind the demon even if she couldn't kill Raith.  The idea is simple and it's probably wrong.  But I like it anyway.

Eh, it's probably just because he doesn't want anyone who can usurp him.

edit
I wonder if Malcolm was a fae halfling who chose to be human.  Maybe a son of Lea.  Goofy idea, but I throw it out there.  It creates a connection between Lea and Margaret  and would go a long ways towards explaining Lea's affection for Harry.

Because Margaret La Fay, famous for traveling the Ways in Faerie for more than 100 years, couldn't have met Lea without the man that she just met introducing them?

And Lea knowing Margaret isn't enough explanation for Lea's affection toward Harry? Considering Lea explicitly references her relationship to Margaret whenever it comes up, and almost never Malcolm?

[Wizard Sibelis]

The mirror seen in Thomas's soul probably has nothing to do with other realities, because it's in his soul.

And the real reason it's called Mirror Mirror is that's the title of the Star Trek episode that introduced Beard Spock. I'm sure there'll be an in-universe reason for it as well, and it would make sense thematically if mirrors (already established in the series as gateways) are in fact how he's pulled through, but I seriously doubt the image in Thomas's soul has anything to do with it.

Yea no titles in DF have double ontondra meanings for sureski's.
The empty night beyond, just like the apocalyptic reference, none of it will come to fruitation one mere book away or anything. Oh and btw, redue your mythological reading, the gateway in the soul.... cross that with Malcolms 'death is a doorway 2 person wide', cause it's a personal passage lol. But I digress, your probably right simply because that's what you believe.

[Avernite]

And Lea knowing Margaret isn't enough explanation for Lea's affection toward Harry? Considering Lea explicitly references her relationship to Margaret whenever it comes up, and almost never Malcolm?

Of course not. Harry can't have a parent who is just a good man. Never mind that if you add a good man to Margaret le Fay, you get basically Harry's character.

[Mr. Death]

Yea no titles in DF have double ontondra meanings for sureski's.

The empty night beyond, just like the apocalyptic reference, none of it will come to fruitation one mere book away or anything. Oh and btw, redue your mythological reading, the gateway in the soul....

I know they do. In fact, I explicitly acknowledged as much and said I think it's likely actual mirrors will, in fact, play a part:

The mirror seen in Thomas's soul probably has nothing to do with other realities, because it's in his soul.

And the real reason it's called Mirror Mirror is that's the title of the Star Trek episode that introduced Beard Spock. I'm sure there'll be an in-universe reason for it as well, and it would make sense thematically if mirrors (already established in the series as gateways) are in fact how he's pulled through, but I seriously doubt the image in Thomas's soul has anything to do with it.

cross that with Malcolms 'death is a doorway 2 person wide', cause it's a personal passage lol.

He walked around the grave and put his hand on my shoulder.
"Son. Everyone dies alone. That's what it is. It's a door. It's one
person wide. When you go through it, you do it alone." His fingers
squeezed me tight. "But it doesn't mean you've got to be alone
before you go through the door. And believe me, you aren't alone
on the other side."

[Wizard Sibelis]

Yea....?

I seriously doubt the image in Thomas's soul has anything to do with it.

The empty night beyond, just like the apocalyptic reference,

[Mr. Death]

Yea....?

If this is in reference to the soulgaze between Harry and Thomas, the words "empty" and "night" don't appear anywhere in the description of the demon in the mirror, let alone put together as in the White Court's customary curse.

Oddly, perhaps, for a book centered around the White Court, the term "Empty night" only actually appears once in the whole text.

The passage doesn't even describe any sort of sky, let alone one that could be interpreted even loosely as an "empty night."

I looked past the young man into the mirror. There I saw one of
those things that I would want to forget. But thanks to the Sight, I
wouldn't. Ever.
The reflection room in the mirror looked like the one I stood in at
first glance. But looking closer revealed that rather than black and
white marble, the place was made from dark, dried blood and sunbleached
bone. A creature stood there at the mirror, directly in
front of Thomas. It was humanoid, more or less Thomas's size,
and its hide shone with a luminous silver glow. It crouched,
hunched and grotesque, though at the same time there was an
eerie beauty about the thing. Its shining white eyes burned with
silent flame. Its bestial face stared eagerly at Thomas, burning with
what seemed to be unsatiated appetite.
The creature's arm also extended to the mirror, and then with a
shiver I realized that its limb was reaching a good foot past the
mirror's surface. Its gleaming claws were sunk into Thomas's
shaking forearm, and drops of dark blood had run from the
punctures. Thomas's arm, meanwhile, had sunk into the mirror,
and I saw his fingers digging in hard upon the flesh of the
creature's forearm. Locked together, I sensed that the two were
straining against each other. Thomas was trying to pull himself
away from the thing. The creature was trying to drag him into the
mirror, there among the dried blood and dead bones.

[morriswalters]

Eh, it's probably just because he doesn't want anyone who can usurp him.

One doesn't preclude the other.

Because Margaret La Fay, famous for traveling the Ways in Faerie for more than 100 years, couldn't have met Lea without the man that she just met introducing them?

And Lea knowing Margaret isn't enough explanation for Lea's affection toward Harry? Considering Lea explicitly references her relationship to Margaret whenever it comes up, and almost never Malcolm?

I don't offer this very seriously, it's just idle musing.  But I haven't been left with the idea that the fae are into the concept of best friends, nor are they givers of information without a quid pro quo.

[Mr. Death]

One doesn't preclude the other.I don't offer this very seriously, it's just idle musing.  But I haven't been left with the idea that the fae are into the concept of best friends, nor are they givers of information without a quid pro quo.

They may not be, but I don't see a reason that Malcolm would be needed to justify Lea's involvement when we know that Margaret spent a century or so interacting directly with fae.