The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Saint Patrick still be running around?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Paviel on June 27, 2018, 01:01:38 PM ---There is something odd about St. Patrick. Bob said that it took the power of "a major heavy-weight sorcerer or a demon lord or one of the faerie queens" to cast the loup-garou curse on even one person, let alone an entire bloodline.
I would assume that St. Patrick's "addenda" to the loup-garou curse on MacFinn (i.e. his entire bloodline is cursed, and it'll never go extinct) would require that much more power besides. But I would think only TWG would have that much power.
Granted, St. Patrick was in league with TWG...
--- End quote ---
Maybe it was a combination of Faith based magic + Soulfire, or the wizard in question tapped into another power source?
vultur:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 25, 2018, 08:11:39 PM ---Though can you be a Saint and an actual Deity at the same time? I feel like those should be cognitively incompatible.
--- End quote ---
Well, Odin is "mostly retired", whatever that means... He may not actively seek worship or present himself as a deity any longer. Maybe that's why his public persona is Donar Vadderung, CEO of Monoc Securities rather than Odin, All-Father of the Aesir?
groinkick:
--- Quote from: vultur on June 29, 2018, 05:27:37 AM --- rather than Odin, All-Father of the Aesir?
--- End quote ---
He'd be more limited that way... Vadderung is probably as close as he can get to mortal, giving him much more freedom.
toodeep:
Jim's comment about what makes a saint was a deep disappointment to me, because it smashed my theory on what makes a saint. But it doesn't rule out a saint doing what I hypothesized. My theory was thus:
1. We have seen that mortals can make deals with beings from the NeverNever for power. At times this involves a connection between souls like that which makes a white court vampire. The human gains power from the NeverNever creature and that creature gains an ability to effect its host and the mortal world (i.e. feed in the Hunger's case).
2. Angels can be treated as beings from the NeverNever.
What happens when a human soul makes a symbiotic relationship with an angel? I think this is very, very rare, since obviously angels would be very nervous about bequeathing their power to a mortal who can misuse it. On the flip side, there is a huge advantage to doing it as well - the same thing the Denarians gain - the ability to give their power to someone with free will to use in the mortal world.
So obviously, this would only happen with the most "good" of people, and the angels might be inclined to do it with people who weren't likely to live very long (might be part of the deal, might be a side effect of channeling that much power) in order to reduce the likelihood of abuse. That would explain the rarity of Saints and their tendency to usually be martyrs.
But oh, the power they would have when they had access to (some of) an angel's power.
vultur:
--- Quote from: toodeep on June 29, 2018, 01:20:55 PM ---1. We have seen that mortals can make deals with beings from the NeverNever for power. At times this involves a connection between souls like that which makes a white court vampire. The human gains power from the NeverNever creature and that creature gains an ability to effect its host and the mortal world (i.e. feed in the Hunger's case).
--- End quote ---
Well... deals for power don't generally seem to create that kind of close connection. Sharing a body with some kind of Nevernever entity seems to either be "natural" (I don't think there's any evidence that White Court vampires or lycanthropes were created by mortal spellcasters) or the result of something really, really powerful (Denarian Coins, Faerie Knights' Mantles).
The hexenwolf belts might be a counter-example, but they're really not that powerful in the grand scheme of things, and IIRC Jim has hinted that the theory that they came from the Erlking is correct, in which case that's another case of something really, really powerful setting up the situation.
Maaaaybe the Archive was something like this, but if so that's probably a case of "way, way beyond what modern wizards can do" like Merlin's creation of Demonreach. Bob is a Seriously Big Deal to the White Council and he's not nearly on the Archive's level.
If setting up this sort of thing was within the power of a standard wizard, I think a ton of crazy warlocks would have awesome physical powers to add to their spellcasting ability.
--- Quote ---What happens when a human soul makes a symbiotic relationship with an angel? I think this is very, very rare, since obviously angels would be very nervous about bequeathing their power to a mortal who can misuse it.
--- End quote ---
I think that the "normal" way of bequeathing angel power to a mortal is granting Soulfire. Harry presumably isn't the only mortal spellcaster to have gotten this, since
the skinwalker in Turn Coat comments that it's strange that he can use it without faith. Perhaps it's something that a lot of Saints have gotten in the past.
And on a much higher level, there's Uriel lending his Grace to Michael in Skin Game...
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