The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
If Ivy dies.....
Fcrate:
--- Quote from: Mira on May 29, 2018, 11:06:06 PM ---Um, your reasons are the reasons she shouldn't be.. I need to reread the bit where Luccio warns Harry about humanizing Ivy too much.. Murphy is all too human and tend to see things her own way, that got her into trouble trying to wield and judge with a Holy Sword, which clearly she shouldn't have done... I can see her not agreeing with or feeling morally able to carry out some of the things the Archive must do, that would spell trouble for her..
--- End quote ---
I agree. And the forced neutrality? Not a chance. Murphy is only good as a mortal, capable cop.
I think if Ivy dies, it's poof, gone. Unless someone knows the workings of the creation of the Archive and "Salvages" the database from her brain with some good old fashioned necromancy, then picks some poor fool to put the archive in.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Fcrate on May 30, 2018, 12:49:13 AM ---I agree. And the forced neutrality? Not a chance. Murphy is only good as a mortal, capable cop.
--- End quote ---
Murphy may not have a Choice if the Mantle has some control over the person.
peregrine:
--- Quote from: groinkick on May 30, 2018, 03:56:12 AM ---Murphy may not have a Choice if the Mantle has some control over the person.
--- End quote ---
I can't imagine that a Mantle can do that without some sort of Choice being made. Even with Molly, while Jim said it's inevitable, it's not immediate. So it may be one of those things where you're constantly being asked "How bout now? How bout now? What about now?" until you say yes.
Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
The way I see an unwilling host(ess) playing out is that she gets saddled with the knowledge and Mantle, but still retains enough of her Free Will at first. But the Mantle can keep feeding her information about what's happening in the world, the importance of the job, things like that, to wear down her resistance until she Chooses to accept it.
Assuming of course that the Archive is in the flesh and brains of the person, and not some sort of nebulous construct that would exist even were Ivy to die, and possibly be recovered from the aether by someone else who can whip together the right magic.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: peregrine on May 30, 2018, 04:07:23 AM ---I can't imagine that a Mantle can do that without some sort of Choice being made. Even with Molly, while Jim said it's inevitable, it's not immediate. So it may be one of those things where you're constantly being asked "How bout now? How bout now? What about now?" until you say yes.
Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
The way I see an unwilling host(ess) playing out is that she gets saddled with the knowledge and Mantle, but still retains enough of her Free Will at first. But the Mantle can keep feeding her information about what's happening in the world, the importance of the job, things like that, to wear down her resistance until she Chooses to accept it.
Assuming of course that the Archive is in the flesh and brains of the person, and not some sort of nebulous construct that would exist even were Ivy to die, and possibly be recovered from the aether by someone else who can whip together the right magic.
--- End quote ---
A little baby had no Choice when the Mantle went to her. Even so whenever duty calls, Murphy answers. Police officer running into battle, KoTC fighting at Chicken Pizza, Harry asking her to take on Nicodemus... My guess is that when being given the Choice to face the Old Gods in a secret war where humanity is in the balance she'd choose to say yes once she was convinced there was a reason the Mantle was seeking her. Or if Ivy knew her death was coming and that Murphy was the one she thought best to replace her.
Mira:
--- Quote ---A little baby had no Choice when the Mantle went to her. Even so whenever duty calls, Murphy answers. Police officer running into battle, KoTC fighting at Chicken Pizza, Harry asking her to take on Nicodemus... My guess is that when being given the Choice to face the Old Gods in a secret war where humanity is in the balance she'd choose to say yes once she was convinced there was a reason the Mantle was seeking her. Or if Ivy knew her death was coming and that Murphy was the one she thought best to replace her.
--- End quote ---
But that doesn't keep her from having her own ideas and thinking what is right or wrong.. At C.I. she allowed herself to become a sock puppet of an archangel and she didn't like it, but it worked out for one night, not long term... She rejected the Sword because she didn't believe in the rules, chose to fight with it in spite of her belief that the Nickleheads didn't deserve a chance at redemption.. Judged Nic, and got a Sword broken... I cannot see her mentally standing up to the demands of the Archive....
--- Quote ---Likewise, while the Archive Mantle may be able to say "You're my home now" I don't think it'd be able to immediately start dictating her actions. Keep in mind of course that Ivy's mom was able to suicide despite being the Archive.
--- End quote ---
Oh I think it does, and it takes away the freedom of the host... If I remember right Ivy's mom received the Archive as a teenager and rebelled because she never had enough freedom before hand to adjust to it... I cannot see Murphy becoming the sock puppet of the Archive anymore than she stood for very long being the sock puppet of an Archangel..
I don't think choice to accept enters into it very much either in case of the Archive... The point was Ivy's mom didn't have a choice to accept, and being a small baby Ivy certainly never had a choice..
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version