The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Mavra be under Eb's control?
SerScot:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 06, 2018, 12:03:10 PM ---So your not saying that maybe the Grey Council is secretly Black, you are saying that maybe the Black Council is secretly Grey?
I can dig it.
--- End quote ---
Precisely.
SerScot:
Mr. Death,
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 06, 2018, 02:08:09 PM ---What has the Black Council done -- either on screen or attributed to them -- that indicates that they're anything besides black-hearted villains?
Was it when they backed a plot to murder innocent women and thus prevent magically adept humans from being born?
Was it when their agents sought to blow up Demonreach, which would've destroyed a chunk of the US and killed millions?
Was it when Peabody murdered a Senior Council member and framed the Wardens to try and subvert and divide the council, then murdered dozens of wizards with mordite when he was found out?
Perhaps it was when their allies, the Fomor, were kidnapping innocent men, women and children and planned to murder an unborn child to break the mother?
Seriously -- everything that could possibly be attributed to the Black Council is abhorrent and evil actions.
--- End quote ---
Again, we don't know enough to know who was behind all that. What I wonder is if "the Circle" isn't a splinter off of the "Grey Council" which is what Harry has thought was the "Black Council". There can and might be more than one organization moving in the background undermining the power of the White Council.
SerScot:
Snark Knight,
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on June 06, 2018, 02:25:35 PM ---Besides which, Ariana was ultimately trying to use the bloodline curse to kill Ebenezar. If it had just been about Harry, she could have blown him up in his office at any time. That doesn't scream that they were secret colleagues on the Black Council to me.
--- End quote ---
You are assuming the Reds were part of the Black Council/The Circle. We don't know that they were. If they were where was Cowl at Chichen Itza?
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 04:49:46 PM ---You are assuming the Reds were part of the Black Council/The Circle. We don't know that they were. If they were where was Cowl at Chichen Itza?
--- End quote ---
Not all the Reds as a unified nation, just Ariana. Cowl doesn't need to be present at every single thing the Circle does - it would have been actively counterproductive to Ariana's moment of political glory to have a dark wizard around seen as supervising her. She never figured on Harry piecing together what they were up to in time to turn it into a slugging match.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 04:47:43 PM ---Mr. Death,
Again, we don't know enough to know who was behind all that. What I wonder is if "the Circle" isn't a splinter off of the "Grey Council" which is what Harry has thought was the "Black Council". There can and might be more than one organization moving in the background undermining the power of the White Council.
--- End quote ---
We know enough to start drawing conclusions; we can place Outsiders behind several of those actions, and people who we've since learned were allied with Outsiders at the others.
"Black Council" is a name Harry came up with, but "The Circle" fits what he'd assumed and concluded about the Black Council.
And the "Grey Council" was deliberately and explicitly founded in response to the Black Council/Circle, so it makes no sense for the Circle to have splintered off from it.
What we still do not have is any actions taken by suspected or confirmed members of the Circle/Black Council doing anything we can construe as being good or well-intentioned. Nor have any of their agents offered justification for why they're doing evil things.
The idea that the Black Council is somehow not badguys just plain does not have support in the text, and neither does the idea that Ebenezer is their ally.
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