The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Mavra be under Eb's control?
nedserD C B yrraH:
Well, if we circle back to DB, we get to see a justification of "black magic" used to preserve life by Kumori, who is directly attached to Cowl, who is part of the Circle. That doesn't, in any way, rule out the Black Council being the in universe front for the the Outsiders. But it could indicate that members of the organization are capable of being turned. If Kumori were smacked in the face with proof that her noble goal of ending death would actually ruin existence, she might leave the Black Council or turn double agent. Combined with Nic's "One day" remark about being a Saint, I think it is entirely possible the end goals of the Black Council are EVIL, but they have deceived members with false hopes and impossible utopias.
Mr. Death:
That I can agree with -- and I think it's notable that we didn't see Kumori with Cowl the second time, and I don't think it's because she died.
SerScot:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on June 06, 2018, 06:02:20 PM ---We know enough to start drawing conclusions; we can place Outsiders behind several of those actions, and people who we've since learned were allied with Outsiders at the others.
"Black Council" is a name Harry came up with, but "The Circle" fits what he'd assumed and concluded about the Black Council.
And the "Grey Council" was deliberately and explicitly founded in response to the Black Council/Circle, so it makes no sense for the Circle to have splintered off from it.
What we still do not have is any actions taken by suspected or confirmed members of the Circle/Black Council doing anything we can construe as being good or well-intentioned. Nor have any of their agents offered justification for why they're doing evil things.
The idea that the Black Council is somehow not badguys just plain does not have support in the text, and neither does the idea that Ebenezer is their ally.
--- End quote ---
We have only Eb's word about the rationale and structure of the Grey Council. We know two other members but we don't know why they joined or what they hope to get out of the Grey Council.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 04:49:46 PM ---Snark Knight,
You are assuming the Reds were part of the Black Council/The Circle. We don't know that they were. If they were where was Cowl at Chichen Itza?
--- End quote ---
Probably working behind the scenes somewhere else while Dresden, Leah, KoTC, and other allies were distracted at Chichen Itza. Also remember that only wizards can summon Outsiders. So where the Outsiders have been you can start making connections to the Black Council.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: SerScot on June 06, 2018, 06:41:06 PM ---We have only Eb's word about the rationale and structure of the Grey Council. We know two other members but we don't know why they joined or what they hope to get out of the Grey Council.
--- End quote ---
What reason do we have to doubt Ebenezer's word? What actions have been attributed to him that would make one think he's lying?
As far as I'm concerned, those other two members confirm what side the Grey Council is on.
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