The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Queen Succession Rules
raidem:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 16, 2018, 08:55:37 PM ---The point is no complicated constructions with pregnant ladies before they become mother protected by the queens mantle or whatever needed. The standard method works.
--- End quote ---
This point was to test how far a lady could go before her mantle was unmade. The unmade moment is defined by mab to be for the lady to be a mother, which is why I asked at what point did it begin:birth or conception.
The next point was to assert a restriction upon the Mother summer/winter mantle to obtain an actual mother. The queen mantle wouldn't have any such restriction as she is a bridge between two mutually exclusive states. (I argue)
Final point is to attempt to insert a Murphy pregnancy in a time travel plot to see if that could still qualify her as a lady, a nonmother, at least up until she gave birth.
I like groinkick suggestion.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: raidem on January 17, 2018, 01:41:34 AM ---Agreed.
This doesn't touch upon the Mother mantles which I've largely been arguing about. Simply put, the Mother mantels as in Mother Winter Mother Summer and not the lower queens of which you are referring to, require their holder to be a mother. This is symmetric with the lady mantels that require their holder to be a nonmother.
--- End quote ---
There is probably some confusion here because Mab is a mother but not the mother and I do not refer to the mothers as queens.
I do not think the prerequisites are that strict. It is not clear if Molly was a virgin at cold days but she probably was. But whatever she was she certainly is now, it is magic.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: raidem on January 17, 2018, 01:55:23 AM ---This point was to test how far a lady could go before her mantle was unmade. The unmade moment is defined by mab to be for the lady to be a mother, which is why I asked at what point did it begin:birth or conception.
The next point was to assert a restriction upon the Mother summer/winter mantle to obtain an actual mother. The queen mantle wouldn't have any such restriction as she is a bridge between two mutually exclusive states. (I argue)
Final point is to attempt to insert a Murphy pregnancy in a time travel plot to see if that could still qualify her as a lady, a nonmother, at least up until she gave birth.
I like groinkick suggestion.
--- End quote ---
The mantle would recognise a pregnacy and it would be one of the many reasons not to consider her a suitable host. And if somehow forced to take a pregnant Murphy as a host considering the violent nature of the mantle and the pre christian ethics of the thing in general I think a miscarriage would be the next step.
If the host is not suitable the mantle will try to make it so.
raidem:
Yeah, we got one point out of the way.
Now, I'm focusing on the other point. If somehow the Lady mantle is allowed to take a pregnant Lady (not considered mother yet) I don't think the mantle would take action against the fetus as that would probably violate the prohibition regarding the Queens not killing mortals. I see the defense mechanism depicted in Molly's encounter with Ramirez as the first defense mechanism we've seen. If somehow it gets bypassed, and the mantle isn't destroyed by the Lady becoming just short of a operative definition of 'mother', then I think the pregnancy would get inside the mantles defenses such that it couldn't touch it. The mantle would then push the Lady toward becoming Queen at all costs. It wins either way by having the Lady vacate its mantle. Lady dies in attempt, Lady mantle passes. Lady becomes Queen, Lady mantle passes. Each of which would need to occur before 'birth' if that is the definition of 'mother.' This is entirely mute however if conception is considered adequate by the mantle to be a 'mother.' This then would allow for possible sex between the Lady and another with the exception that if such a conception occurred as a result, fulfilling the 'mother' definition, this would then destroy the Lady mantle.
In short, I'd argue the mantle could not cause a miscarriage. This circumstance, if it hadn't already caused the Lady mantle's destruction, would be inside the mantles defenses and prohibited by law that prevents the Queens from killing mortals.
Now, the question becomes if on the off chance this may be accurate, would it be at all relevant. That answer at this point is a probable no. It, in my theories, mainly applies to Murphy and on the chance she TT's into the past pregnant with say Harry's child, who may be Marcone. All of these Wag's are increasingly unlikely when combined together. They also require a more complex storyline to back them.
Cozarkian:
--- Quote from: raidem on January 17, 2018, 05:22:14 PM ---In short, I'd argue the mantle could not cause a miscarriage. This circumstance, if it hadn't already caused the Lady mantle's destruction, would be inside the mantles defenses and prohibited by law that prevents the Queens from killing mortals.
--- End quote ---
If a fetus is sufficiently mortal to prevent a queen from killing it, then it is also sufficiently mortal to make the queen a mother.
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