The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Nicodemus wants to be God
SintraEdrien:
--- Quote from: forumghost on November 20, 2017, 11:39:31 PM ---I doubt that she'll be getting much napping done.
She spent the last few centuries committing horrible atrocities for "The Greater Good" Stop saying that! and the Greeks were big on ironic punishments. So, seeing as she liked to use her hair to blenderize people, she's probably going to spend all of eternity crawling naked through a field of Razor wire.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer more deserving girl.
--- End quote ---
Fixed that for you. ;)
But really, in my opinion, her sincerity is real, but meaningless. WoJ has said that actions, not intentions, matter, and produce consequences. I see her punishment in Hades more as a consequence of her acts than as a retributive sentence levelled by a jury trial. I think that is more what Hades was trying to convey to Harry in that conversation, even though the resulting outcome (torment) may approach similarity.
jonas:
--- Quote from: groinkick on November 22, 2017, 08:00:43 PM ---#1. She doesn't seem the type for self sacrifice. Haven't seen any redeeming quality from her the entire series.
#2. Nicodemus believes God will lose, making me believe he has an idea or plan on why he'll lose.
#3. Nicodemus stored her soul in a place where their "enemy" can't get it which makes me believe he cannot gain access to hell, but he can return to Hades realm.
#4. His plan was to obtain many powerful holy relics which uses are unknown but considering that a powerful being who's blood touched them rose from the dead gives reason to believe that they may have the power to raise someone else.
#5. There is a girl within the series who has been in a coma, and therefor her importance for the story could be her body being used as a vessel. If she serves no importance, why have her in the story at all?
#6. Hades is not the power he once was. Souls are stored in his realm but he does appear to be a being that can make deals, or be simply overpowered, meaning the souls are not in some unbreakable vault.
--- End quote ---
Well done there..
Ananda:
--- Quote from: groinkick on November 22, 2017, 08:00:43 PM ---#1. She doesn't seem the type for self sacrifice. Haven't seen any redeeming quality from her the entire series.
#2. Nicodemus believes God will lose, making me believe he has an idea or plan on why he'll lose.
#3. Nicodemus stored her soul in a place where their "enemy" can't get it which makes me believe he cannot gain access to hell, but he can return to Hades realm.
#4. His plan was to obtain many powerful holy relics which uses are unknown but considering that a powerful being who's blood touched them rose from the dead gives reason to believe that they may have the power to raise someone else.
#5. There is a girl within the series who has been in a coma, and therefor her importance for the story could be her body being used as a vessel. If she serves no importance, why have her in the story at all?
#6. Hades is not the power he once was. Souls are stored in his realm but he does appear to be a being that can make deals, or be simply overpowered, meaning the souls are not in some unbreakable vault.
--- End quote ---
You’re talking about Nic again, not Deirdre. You’re really conflating the two. What is in the book is a frank talk from Deirdre about Deirdre saving the universe. Her conversation contains no hint that she has a trick up her shirt. She is being sincere, in my opinion. That’s why I had mentioned her openness and vulnerability in the chst she had with Dresden.
Ananda:
--- Quote from: SintraEdrien on November 22, 2017, 08:40:37 PM ---Fixed that for you. ;)
But really, in my opinion, her sincerity is real, but meaningless. WoJ has said that actions, not intentions, matter, and produce consequences.
--- End quote ---
I don’t follow Butcher’s q&a stuff from his marketing appearances, just the book (no short stories, either). An interesting side effect of this statement, though, is how we should then look at the death of Susan. If only actions matter, then Dresden murdered his daughter’s mother. And, that’s just one of the most obvious actions to revisit. I’d think a more nuanced perspective would work better otherwise, you’re into absolutism in a grey world.
What I like about this character, Deirdre, is that she represents both horror, ugliness and pain on one hand, but also victimhood, love and selfless sacrifice on another.
As most here would agree, she is a self serving, angry person with a long history of brutal and perhaps even casual violence doling out death when it suits her without a second thought. Her disdain for those outside her circle was made clear.
On the other hand, she seems to truly love her family and, for lack of better word, her colleagues. She was born into that circumstance. She was as much a victim of the denarians as any others cited in the books. Moreso than most, even as they got death’s release whereas she was moulded into complicity. She’s the twisted reflection of herself; her capacity to love, to care corrupted and turned on itself. Yet, she stll holds the capacity for love, for selfless sacrifice.
Anyway, I think she one of the more interesting characters in the books. Most are pretty shallow, but her appearance in this last book elevated the character over most of the others in the serial.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Ananda on November 23, 2017, 04:18:30 AM ---You’re talking about Nic again, not Deirdre.
--- End quote ---
I have said repeatedly why she's doing what she did, personal gain. Nicodemus is mentioned because he's directly tied to the plan succeeding if there is such a plan.
--- Quote ---You’re really conflating the two. What is in the book is a frank talk from Deirdre about Deirdre saving the universe. Her conversation contains no hint that she has a trick up her shirt. She is being sincere, in my opinion. That’s why I had mentioned her openness and vulnerability in the chst she had with Dresden.
--- End quote ---
She is talking to Harry, a man who always looks for the best in people, particularly women. She, and her Fallen would absolutely take advantage of that. It's possible she was being honest, and is trying to save the universe with no other motive. However her past cannot be ignored, and for her to sacrifice herself is to go against what we know of her. It would be like Harry deciding he didn't feel like saving a woman in distress... It goes against his very nature.
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