The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Nicodemus wants to be God
Ananda:
--- Quote from: groinkick on November 23, 2017, 06:16:47 AM ---She is talking to Harry, a man who always looks for the best in people, particularly women. She, and her Fallen would absolutely take advantage of that. It's possible she was being honest, and is trying to save the universe with no other motive. However her past cannot be ignored, and for her to sacrifice herself is to go against what we know of her. It would be like Harry deciding he didn't feel like saving a woman in distress... It goes against his very nature.
--- End quote ---
This is better. Now, you are talking about Deirdre.
The thing about her is that we know very little of her inner-self. We only know what biased information that Dresden gives us until her short conversation with him. I think that was meant to be an insight into her, even though filtered through Dresden’s contempt for her.
What do we actually know of her?
She was a child victim of the denarians.
She was twisted, corrupted and otherwise turned into a dark reflection of a loving daughter as a child.
She went on to be part of the cult she was born into, indoctrinated into as an adult.
She killed people for her own reasons in the amoral social structure of which she was a part.
She feels deeply (if her short chat is truly mesnt to be an insight).
She willingly sacrificed herself to save the universe.
That’s what we know. The rest is speculation based on the unreliable and biased narration of someone who holds her in contempt.
I see most conversation about her immediately turns to Nic, but I think (after skin game (before that, she was pretty undefined)) she’s an interesting character on her own and worth a closer examination (which I can’t do now because i am making dinner).
SintraEdrien:
--- Quote from: Ananda on November 23, 2017, 05:12:45 PM ---This is better. Now, you are talking about Deirdre.
The thing about her is that we know very little of her inner-self. We only know what biased information that Dresden gives us until her short conversation with him. I think that was meant to be an insight into her, even though filtered through Dresden’s contempt for her.
What do we actually know of her?
She feels deeply (if her short chat is truly mesnt to be an insight).
*she claims*
She willingly sacrificed herself to save the universe.
*she claims*
That’s what we know. The rest All of this is speculation based on the unreliable and biased narration of someone who holds her in contempt.
I see most conversation about her immediately turns to Nic, but I think (after skin game (before that, she was pretty undefined)) she’s an interesting character on her own and worth a closer examination (which I can’t do now because i am making dinner).
--- End quote ---
Basically, you seem to be claiming that Harry is a bad biased unreliable narrator until he reports the parts that seem to support your desired outcome, and then he is an accurate unbiased recorder of events. This is a conflation of watsonian and doylist viewponts, forced by you into the books themselves. I cannot therefore accept your propositions as valid. I have inserted what I believe to be appropriate modifications to your claims as quoted above, and would like to hear an argument made that clearly separates in-novel viewpoints from reader viewpoints as applied to what we have read.
Ananda:
--- Quote from: SintraEdrien on November 24, 2017, 02:24:13 AM ---Basically, you seem to be claiming that Harry is a bad biased unreliable narrator until he reports the parts that seem to support your desired outcome, and then he is an accurate unbiased recorder of events. This is a conflation of watsonian and doylist viewponts, forced by you into the books themselves. I cannot therefore accept your propositions as valid. I have inserted what I believe to be appropriate modifications to your claims as quoted above, and would like to hear an argument made that clearly separates in-novel viewpoints from reader viewpoints as applied to what we have read.
--- End quote ---
Sorry, UNTIL refers to having no glimpse into her inner-self UNTIL that conversation not that the narrator suddenly became reliable. In essence, that was the first time we heard her talk about herself, therefore my use of UNTIL. I can see how that could be unclear with the way I wrote it, though. Since that miscommunication was the basis for your response, I think we can drop all that followed as predicated on a misunderstanding.
*I used caps rather than bold as on a mobile device and it was easier.
Kindler:
Deirdre had either centuries or millennia to figure out that murder was wrong, and she never did. There comes a certain point where indoctrination is no longer a valid excuse and you have to take responsibility for your own actions. I'll give her a hundred year pass. Still leaves a dozen or two centuries or gleeful murder.
As for her sacrificing herself to save the universe, I don't believe that for a second. If she and Nic are trying to save reality, it's because nobody is allowed to break their toys but them. It's not about selflessness, it's about possession. I see her sacrifice as a Thanatos Gambit, where her death was part of a plan to defeat her enemies. I see it as spite. Her sacrifice, in my opinion, is a dark mirror of Shiro's.
wardenferry419:
Yep, the good guys tend not to smile so much as they kill priests and bankers.
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