The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Nicodemus wants to be God
Arjan:
She probably genuinely believed in what she did and that gave her a inner peace of mind. She killed people and she knew she was doing the right thing. She sacrificed herself in the same spirit. It made her smile.
The problem is people believe all kind of dung especially if it is spoon fed from birth. Nicodemus kept feeding her with the assistence of fallen angels.
In the end she was a victim of the fallen just like the other denarians. That is why the knights try to save them. But she was a victim who was making victims so something had to be done.
Free will is a problematic concept. Assigning free will to someone basically says you hold him responsible for his actions. In that sense children have no free will, their parents are responsible.
But nobody is completely responsible for his actions, he is made by his genetic makeup, his upbringing, his whole environment and every accident in life that can happen.
At a certain point we hold someone responsible and sometimes we don’t. But even if we don’t the problem does not go away and if she is not responsible for the problem she is (part of) the problem.
wardenferry419:
I'm sorry; but, that sounds like deferrring accountability. Everybody is born with limitations on what they can and can't do. How we overcome those hindrances and what we learn and achieve are what define a person. Deidre had evil parents. She had an evil being co-existing inside her body. So, her limitations were greater than any normal person experiences. But, she could have overcome these obstacles. Good people have come from bad parents. People, like Sanya and Harry, have dropped their coins. She has been in 3 books. In every book she was in, she killed people with a smile on her face and a song in her heart.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on November 29, 2017, 10:02:08 AM ---I'm sorry; but, that sounds like deferrring accountability.
--- End quote ---
Not really. Just trying to find cause and effect. For an individual this is mostly guesswork but you could also research what happens with populations if the environment changes.
Besides it does not really matter. Prison is meant to correct, punish them and keep them from the street. For those that we deem not accountable mental institutions are there to cure them and keep them from the street. And some prisoners belong to mental institutions.
If you really want to make them accountable you have to go back to the old germanic system and ask her wergeld for everyone she has killed to compensate the families.
--- Quote ---Everybody is born with limitations on what they can and can't do. How we overcome those hindrances and what we learn and achieve are what define a person. Deidre had evil parents. She had an evil being co-existing inside her body. So, her limitations were greater than any normal person experiences. But, she could have overcome these obstacles. Good people have come from bad parents. People, like Sanya and Harry, have dropped their coins. She has been in 3 books. In every book she was in, she killed people with a smile on her face and a song in her heart.
--- End quote ---
Some can and some can not, that in itself points to capabilities and lack of them. But to do so you first have to be convinced it is a worthy goal in itself. Whatever mistakes Harry makes he has a moral compass which in itself is an asset not everybody has.
To hold people as much as possible accountable for their deeds is a convention. A useful convention which helps society to function because who else would be responsible and what would people do if they discovered they were not accountable? Because holding people accountable in itself shapes environment and influences people. So continue.
But if you want to examine how people came to their actions and how free their will really was this preconception only gets in the way.
Besides accountability seems to work perfectly well without free will. When we train dogs we hold them accountable for what they do and punish and reward accordingly. Seems to work better than for a lot of humans.
Ananda:
--- Quote from: Arjan on November 29, 2017, 11:56:58 AM ---But if you want to examine how people came to their actions and how free their will really was this preconception only gets in the way.
--- End quote ---
I've liked your posts on this topic. Just a tangent here (haven't had time to post lately). You may be getting to this point, especially with your dog example, but I thought you might enjoy this talk about how free will does not exist. https://youtu.be/pCofmZlC72g
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Arjan on November 29, 2017, 11:56:58 AM ---Whatever mistakes Harry makes he has a moral compass which in itself is an asset not everybody has.
--- End quote ---
I'd say moral sense rather than moral compass; he does lean an awful lot on what he feels to be right rather than any particularly consistent overall set of directions.
--- Quote ---Besides accountability seems to work perfectly well without free will. When we train dogs we hold them accountable for what they do and punish and reward accordingly. Seems to work better than for a lot of humans.
--- End quote ---
One of the things that intrigues me about the DV is it being a specified axiom of that universe that humans have far more and more significant free will than I've ever seen people have in real life.
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