The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Was there a Dragon in Changes?

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Mr. Death:
Harry isn't using a simile. He outright says it's a leyline of raw earth magic and is describing the images he gets from that. He's not saying it's "like" those things, he's saying it is those things.

raidem:
I agree with Mr. Death in that it isn't a dragon.  I believe it's a source of great power and has its own potential genus loci, but its status in my mind would be asleep.
That said, I still believe a dragon's curse played out in chichen itza that was related to the reds pilfering a Dragon's horde and/or using its location to protect and maintain their gear.
I like to think that the red court, arrogant in their power, crossed the wrong dead Dragon, and they were struck by a long term, insidious, death curse that was aimed at there extermination.

jonas:
Yea, he's interpreting things in both cases, obviously he's getting the sensations interpreted from how he feels it

--- Quote --- but its status in my mind would be asleep.
--- End quote ---
Interesting, almost like a hibernating Dragon? Or a sleeper?

--- Quote from: http://petcaretips.net/myths-dragon.html ---Then there are the dragons that slumber for centuries,
 usually in the depths of some mountain, to awaken at a time
 of world cataclysm to either wreak havoc or rescue the
 world, depending on the story.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---Cthulhu's appearance is described as looking like an octopus, a dragon, and a caricature of human form.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: https://www.greeka.com/greece-myths/orpheus-eurydice.htm ---Orpheus played a vital role during the expedition because, playing his music, he put to sleep the "sleepless dragon" that was guarding the Golden Fleece
--- End quote ---
And his story his heavily tied up with hades and Persephone so he's a likely 'real' person. as well as countess others. hence the saying about tickling a sleeping dragon, kinda known for it, like bears.

Mr. Death:
He's not describing an interpretation.

He's describing directly the images that were in his mind. Those are his words: "I was immediately overwhelmed with a rush of images" "I saw the ponderous dance ..."

Images that he saw. Not interpretations of sensations, but images he saw.

He describes it explicitly as "raw earth magic." If there was a power there he couldn't attribute or describe, he would have said that, but he didn't. He said it was magic that he positively recognized and identified.

When he faces off with Vadderung and is held down by his will, Harry is able to confidently say it's not earth magic holding him down. So, clearly, Harry knows what earth magic is and feels like.

You're attributing ambiguity to the passage when there really isn't any. He's not guessing. He's not speculating. He's saying, "This is what it is. This is what I saw."

jonas:
Yep, this is what I saw. His perspective as he clearly see's the Outer Gates, I mean, that's not an interpretation.... oh, wait, and he straight up experienced that. An there's nothing in the dark necro lines that allude to the fact they are Body heat from dark gods and nameless beasts. Nobody, even the wardens clearly familiar with the lines themselves seem to know anything about it.
Your trying to enforce your same stubborn I don't wanna see anything outside of my perspective opinion on everything, on everyone else. Least the perspective I wish to enforce is to simply be open freakin minded about stuff instead of arguing to be right all the time. Especially a negative affirmation.
*sigh* and this is why nobody see's the supernatural in the DF, they plain don't wanna.

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