The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Was there a Dragon in Changes?
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: jonas on October 06, 2017, 11:26:30 PM ---The Ley lines come from literal creatures trapped in Dr... proof body heat can create a ley line.
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We know that for a fact?
--- Quote ---Harry doesn't say anything about the old chapel and circle of tree's in Marcone's yard being the same mixture of Christianity and Celtic religion that Arthur ruled his throne with. Apparently you have to find the hints and interpret them yourself? Go figure right?
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I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
--- Quote ---Vadd doesn't generally offer such info without a price.. How much did he even really offer on DR?
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Considering by the time he was talking to Harry, Harry had already taken DR, and the subject they were talking about had nothing to do with DR, why on Earth would he say anything about DR?
By contrast, he was freely giving Harry information about Chichen Itza, the kinds of things he was likely to find and have to combat at Chichen Itza, and he himself was going to be at Chichen Itza.
Kiiiiiiiiiinda seems like that'd be the time to mention a Dragon at Chichen Itza.
--- Quote ---Sleeping dragon who only comes out for purpose awakens and rages because a ley line was accessed? It's his body heat, not pulling out his soul and drinking it down to fuel your spell,
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It's his power. Why would a creature who leaves a death curse on its hoard such that nobody will even dare touch it be blase about someone literally leeching his power directly from the source?
"Nobody can have my baubles, not even over my dead body! I curse it with my last breath forever!"
"Eeeh, sure, go ahead, random wizard, just drain my energy to attack my own territory, NBD."
Do those sentences really sound like they'd come from the same type of creature?
--- Quote ---Also Harry knows what the Ley lines on DR come from, didn't stop him in CD, friends did. Looking at or feeling or even using a power doesn't give you a direct link with it's source, a hint at it certainly.
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DR is largely irrelevant. How on earth would using power from something not link you to its source? Considering Harry keeps being told not to use the power at DR for exactly that reason?
Harry describes a power that almost has a kind of awareness because it's old. That doesn't mean Dragon. If anything, a Dragon's power would be more volatile and obvious that it has an actual will.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on October 06, 2017, 11:34:13 PM ---We know that for a fact?
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Yes, Harry intuits it, DR itself doesn't argue with it, GK an Vadderrung agree with it's dark nature. The ley lines aren't the island/prison. Harry uses power from that everytime he's on DR via subsidizing it, He's directly linked to that, not the ley lines power.
--- Quote ---I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
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Exactly, and neither of us saw what the OP saw. But both things are there and unnoticed by Harry himself.
--- Quote ---Considering by the time he was talking to Harry, Harry had already taken DR, and the subject they were talking about had nothing to do with DR, why on Earth would he say anything about DR?
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The whole key of CD's plot was the island dude ??? He didn't exactly offer up extra info, and he was paid there...
--- Quote ---By contrast, he was freely giving Harry information about Chichen Itza, the kinds of things he was likely to find and have to combat at Chichen Itza, and he himself was going to be at Chichen Itza.
Kiiiiiiiiiinda seems like that'd be the time to mention a Dragon at Chichen Itza.
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Because the sleeping dragon who source a ley line is important because? Did it come into play directly? Did it effect victory?
Here's an idea Kulkan supposedly fed upon/replaced the original right? Maybe he sacrificed Quetzalcoatl on his source of power to create Chicken Pizza in the first placed, meaning the energy literally came from a Dragon that's now not a Dragon, but still has the memetic value of a dragon?
--- Quote ---It's his power. Why would a creature who leaves a death curse on its hoard such that nobody will even dare touch it be blase about someone literally leeching his power directly from the source?
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See above, also, it's his aura, Aura's bleed off and spread out, get channeled into the magic flows of the world... Why is the dragon suddenly finding reasons to awaken when he's probably been there from before they arrived?
--- Quote ---"Nobody can have my baubles, not even over my dead body! I curse it with my last breath forever!"
"Eeeh, sure, go ahead, random wizard, just drain my energy to attack my own territory, NBD."
Do those sentences really sound like they'd come from the same type of creature?
DR is largely irrelevant. How on earth would using power from something not link you to its source? Considering Harry keeps being told not to use the power at DR for exactly that reason?
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These questions are illrevent, and it's cause the power would change him, and effectively be a boatload of tainted magic. Why do you think Merlin collected those things?
--- Quote ---Harry describes a power that almost has a kind of awareness because it's old. That doesn't mean Dragon. If anything, a Dragon's power would be more volatile and obvious that it has an actual will.
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See above... also, you can't unmake what's there by supplying an opinion. DR again, has no volatile will to it's ley lines, which isn't illrelevent, as it's a direct parallel with nothing which you describe.
Mr. Death:
There's nothing in the passage that indicates Dragon. There's nobody -- not even the person who gives a huge infodump about the whole nature of the place and everything Harry's going to face there -- that ever mentions a Dragon.
The idea that a huge apocalyptic battle and a spell like that could go off right over a Dragon's head without it noticing makes no sense to me. That there could be a Dragon there and Vadderung wouldn't even bother to mention the possibility makes no sense to me.
The idea that a Dragon would let something else claim its territory as theirs doesn't fit with what we know of Dragons, especially not one that supposedly supplies enough bleed off power to create its own leyline. They hoard things, and jealously guard them. They're so jealous in their guarding that they'll use their death curses to make sure nobody steals what's theirs even after they're long dead. That completely goes against the idea that one would let another supernatural nation just squat on its home and claim it as their ancient seat of power.
It's not that I'm trying to "unmake what's there." It's that there's nothing there.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: OxfordComma on October 04, 2017, 07:34:28 PM ---These were the parts that jumped out at me:
"...and the one beneath us was an enormous current of raw earth magic...I was immediately overwhelmed with a rush of images and alien sensations, contacting a power so intense and coherent that it nearly had its own awareness. In a single moment, I saw the ponderous dance of continents clashing against one another to form mountains, felt the slow sleepiness of the earth, its dreaming shivers felt as disasters by the ephemeral things that lived upon it's skin...gold and silver flowing hot in rivers... I was a frail wisp of mortality beside that energy that could, quite literally, have moved mountains, leveled cities, shifted the course of rivers, and stirred oceans in their beds."
Just sounded very much like a Dragon's job description to me. Or I could have fallen for another of Master Jim's red herrings LOL ;D
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I think you were bolding the wrong parts.
For a start, Harry identifies it as "raw earth magic." He's not speculating there -- he's stating what it is. It's not a mysterious source, he recognizes it as earth magic.
He says it's so old it nearly has awareness. Not that it's from something that has actual awareness.
What he's describing is time. Like an earth leyline's "memory" of things condensed. He's not saying it has the raw power and will to reshape things at whim. He's more likely saying the energy is built up from billions of years of the motion of the earth.
jonas:
And Hades voice is like tectonic plates and his handshake like a mountain. imagery, pure imagery.
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