The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

What if it isn't just power over Outsiders?

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jonas:

--- Quote from: Snark Knight on October 01, 2017, 01:21:12 PM ---A little bit of a test, a little bit of training to prepare him to challenge a Walker. I don't think very much that the Mothers do or say is ever just one thing.

I think the Starborn thing is about more than Outsiders exclusively, though. Specifically, I think Uriel being genuinely frightened at Harry nicknaming him was a clue along those lines.

--- End quote ---
Ahh, but what if the biggest difference between outsider and angel is the identity here in the prime plain? Angel's are supposed to be immutable, not even N can effect them, but what if that's because N is simply another brand of fallen Angel? the comparison would be Naagloshi to fallen as Fallen are to Nemesis. Different order, different origin.
***Either way Uriel was afraid of Harry doing something to him even N cannot do, that should tell you something right there. Not only is his thing Bastions of Will and immovable mindsets, but he can enforce this on Anything by proxy. From his mortal friends he's continually empowered to be more, to Bob right up to Uri, who a mere handful of years later transubstantiates and takes mortal life... All effected by the Starborn flavor to his mortal Aura.

groinkick:

--- Quote from: Smaug with OCD on October 01, 2017, 07:33:03 AM ---Isn't this kind of the definition of a wizard?

--- End quote ---

Yes but I'm thinking that Harry may become to a wizard what a wizard is to a person.  Not just throwing around fire but altering reality on a deeper level.  Human worship can elevate someone to Odin's status for example.  I'm saying that Harry may have that power within himself, not requiring worship, or outside help.  His internal will that is part his personality, and part Starborn power is within him, does not need outside sources of power like worship. .

Kindler:

--- Quote from: groinkick on October 01, 2017, 06:56:39 PM ---Yes but I'm thinking that Harry may become to a wizard what a wizard is to a person.  Not just throwing around fire but altering reality on a deeper level.  Human worship can elevate someone to Odin's status for example.  I'm saying that Harry may have that power within himself, not requiring worship, or outside help.  His internal will that is part his personality, and part Starborn power is within him, does not need outside sources of power like worship. .

--- End quote ---

Maybe starborns are mortals with potential to be elevated to a position like Odin's in the first place. Like, maybe Mab and Titania were starborn.

I do have a bit of a crack theory that William the Conqueror was a starborn, that Maeve's predecessor was killed during Hastings, and that that's why Titania and Mab haven't spoken since then. (Also that Stamford Bridge was where Odin lost to Mab for good, marking the end of the Age of Vikings and his stewardship of the Outer Gates.)

Funny enough, Hastings (and, you know, a huge part of the following several hundred years of history, more if you consider lineage a big deal, as it marked the end of Anglo-Saxon rule of the monarchy permanently) was kicked off in part because Halley's Comet came around, and a lot of people took it as a sign that the time to strike was nigh.

Rasins:
Knowing that Jim doesn't want Harry to be a big fish in a big pond makes me think that even power over Outsiders will be limited.

Froklsnt:
I think Snark Knight and jonas are right that we've got pretty compelling evidence for Harry having the power of naming. The eye flashes of Alfred and Erl as Harry named them, Mr. Sunshine's fear of being called Uri, etc. Naming in the bible was a power given to Adam over beasts in Genesis, it came directly from TWG. Maybe there's a connection there.

I also think Kindler might be on to something, noting Harry's similarity to Odin and other divine beings. Harry is the only mortal we have seen wielding raw will, as opposed to magic. Other than Harry, we've seen raw will from:

Ferrovax
Odin
Red King / LoON
Mother Winter
The Walkers

There might be one or two others (Mab maybe?) but it has been limited to nigh-immortals and Harry. Given that summoning Outsiders seems to be tied to mortals and their "free will," it seems to me that "power over Outsiders" could actually be "the ability of a mortal to directly apply their will," or "a mortal with enough will to effectively apply it directly." It is after beating Sharkface in a battle of wills that the Erlking says "Well done, Starborn!"  Naming seems to fit in with being a will-based power as well.

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