The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Hierarchy of the Courts
jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on September 02, 2017, 01:49:35 AM ---I'm not following you here. The Army, the Navy, and the Marines are all part of the "country" or Court. No, they are not part of each others chains of command.
What I don't you're getting is that Winter's forces are ALL part of the same chain of command. And sitting on top of that chain is Mab (with a nod to Mother Winter).
Or are you suggesting that Winter and Summer are like the Army and Marines?
--- End quote ---
Sitting at the figure head of that chain is the president yes? but he's not either.
--- Quote ---Huh? If he's busy fighting at the wall, then he has no time.
--- End quote ---
For someone who can literally listen to the future, and send messages back to his younger self, you'd think I wouldn't have to explain how little time he wastes vs his efficiency in dealing with it in linear details.
--- Quote ---Actually we KNOW that Mab's forces ARE Gigantic in comparison to Summer's. If she was to bring them in from the Outer Gates, neither Summer, nor our Reality could stand against her. Only Titania could take Mab down personally, but the Forces at Mab's disposal are overwhelming.
Harry just didn't know that in SK.
--- End quote ---
Well, yep. you got me there, cause when she summoned her court and all her higher attendants the the Gate Corp just didn't receive the same commands. The concept I think I need to introduce here after examining this, is Mab doesn't just balance with Aurora. The courts balance themselves, Mab and Titania balance each other, but Mab has this extra authority that's not balance in the courts. For someone representative of literal balance, a rep for maintaining said balance itself.(*should add here she specifically is roled with balancing N's lead of the outsiders and the outsider forces) The courts represent the influence in the mortal realm itself while Mab's forces are something else(Summer and winter don't matter here. ad libbed from MS) not meant to effect said balance as it was shown between the courts in SK (largely shown in the absence of the SK) or between Mab and Titania personally. Titania's specifically their to insure Mab does not use the extra power she has been given to attempt to use it inside reality, thus effecting the balance and resulting in Titania pulling them both directly into oblivion(which offhand, i'd LOVE an explanation on the workings of that one Jim).
So it's hard to say those troops are specifically a part of the court when the balance between seasons is maintained all over the earthly realm by said court.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jonas on September 02, 2017, 02:27:30 AM ---Sitting at the figure head of that chain is the president yes? but he's not either.
--- End quote ---
No, no, no ... the President is not a figurehead. He IS the Commander in Chief, just like Mab is.
--- Quote ---For someone who can literally listen to the future, and send messages back to his younger self, you'd think I wouldn't have to explain how little time he wastes vs his efficiency in dealing with it in linear details.
--- End quote ---
That is an assumption. We don't know that's the case.
--- Quote ---Well, yep. you got me there, cause when she summoned her court and all her higher attendants the the Gate Corp just didn't receive the same commands. The concept I think I need to introduce here after examining this, is Mab doesn't just balance with Aurora. The courts balance themselves, Mab and Titania balance each other, but Mab has this extra authority that's not balance in the courts. For someone representative of literal balance, a rep for maintaining said balance itself. The courts represent the influence in the mortal realm itself while Mab's forces are something else(Summer and winter don't matter here. ad libbed from MS) not meant to effect said balance as it was shown between the courts in SK (largely shown in the absence of the SK) or between Mab and Titania personally. Titania's specifically their to insure Mab does not use the extra power she has been given to attempt to use it inside reality, thus effecting the balance and resulting in Titania pulling them both directly into oblivion(which offhand, i'd LOVE an explanation on the workings of that one Jim).
So it's hard to say those troops are specifically a part of the court when the balance between seasons is maintained all over the earthly realm by said court.
--- End quote ---
Okay, it is said in the books that the forces at the outer gate are Winter forces (with some Summer who help).
It is also said that these forces, that are Winter, outnumber summer by like a "Kagillion to one".
So, like I've been saying, there is no balance between the courts. Winter outweighs Summer by like a "Kagillion to one".
Titania is the balance against Mab in the event that she pulls the forces off of the wall to attack reality, thus promoting the current lady, who would be expected to send the forces back to the outer gates.
Con:
It is also said in the books that Mab would have to forfeit reality in order to take down summer. Directly by Mother Summer, a far more reliable source than Harry.
The Balance between the courts is within the World. The forces on The Outside are nullenvoid for the fact that to use them against Summer would be worst than tantamount to suicide.
Finally Mother Summer also directly states that Titania and therefor Summer Court has their power to protect humanity from Mab.
Look here's the scene.
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: Cold Days p331-334 ---"I don't... I don't understand" I said finally "White Council intelligence always estimated Mab's troop count at around fifty thousand. There are freaking formations out there with more troops in them than that"
.......
((p332-333))
"The edge of Faerie" she said "Our outer borders. It would have taken you a decade to learn to travel out this far"
"Oh" I said "And... and it's like this"
"In essence" MotherSummer said She stared sadly out over the plain. "Did you think Mab spent all her days sitting in her chair and dealing with her backstabbing courtiers? No Sir Knight. Power has purpose"
"What happens if they get in?" I asked.
Mother Summer's lips thinned. "Everything stops. Everything"
"Holy crap" I muttered. "Does Summer have a place like this too then?"
Mother Summer shook her head. "That was never it's task. Your COuncil's estimate was fairly close counting only those troops protecting the hearts of Winter and Summer. Mab has more than that. She needs them- for this."
I felt like I'd been hit repeatedly in the head with a rubber hammer. "So... Mab's troops outnumber yours by a jillion."
Indeed"
"So she could run you over at any time"
"She could" Mother Summer said "if she were willing to forfeit reality"
I scanned the length of the wall nervously. It looked like it went on forever and there was fighting all along its length.
"You're telling me that this is why Mab has her [pwer? To... to protect the borders?"
"To protect all of you from the Outsiders, mortal"
"Then why does Titania have hers?" I asked.
"To protect all of you from Mab"
I swallowed.
"Titania cannot match Mab's forces but she can drag Mab personally into oblivion with her- and Mab knows it. Titania is the check to her power, the balance"
.....
((p 334))
"Huh" I said.
"Yes?" asked Mother Summer.
"I was sort of expecting... something else."
"Winter and Summer are twi opposing forces of ouw world" she said "But we are of our world. Here that is all that matters. And showing respect to one's elders is never unwise".
......
((p334-335))
Instead a column of carts and litters entered bearing the groaning wounded of the fighting outside, being watched over by several dozen Sidhe dressed in pure white armor marked with bold green and scarlet trim-Sidhe knights of Summer. Medics.
--- End quote ---
Ok so. Mother Summer is the direct source for several outright statements and confirmations. First purpose. "Power has Purpose", and it isn't Summer's "task" to protect the Outside.
Second Harry's use of the word and term "a jillion" gets the response "Indeed". According to the multiple online dictionaries a jillion means an indefinitely vast number or a fancifully large number. So either Mab has an Infinite number or just an as yest stated number of forces at the Outer Gates. Given Sidhe can't lie and the Mothers are required to be as vague as possible... could be argued either way. But either way regardless it doesn't count towards the Balance of the Courts because of the following statements.
--- Quote from: Cold Days p333 ---"So she could run you over at any time"
"She could" Mother Summer said "If she were willing to forfeit reality"
--- End quote ---
That is an outright statement, confirmation, and fact that Mab would have to forfeit reality if she were to use her forces against Summer. There by in every practical and even technical detail, they could not be used in any conflict or measurement of the two opposing forces.
That Mab's purpose is
--- Quote from: Cold Days p 333 ---"To protect all of you from The Outsiders, mortal"
"Then why does Titania have hers?" I asked
"To Protect all of you from Mab
--- End quote ---
So right there is a statement, confirmation and fact. Thaat Mab's purpose is to defend mortals from The Outer Gates, That Titania's is to protect mortals from Mab. Which is further clarified below.
--- Quote from: Cold Days p333 ---"Titania cannot match Mab's forces, but she can drag Mab personally into oblivion with her-and Mab knows it. Titania is the check to her power, the balance"
--- End quote ---
A further outright statement, confirmation and fact that using the explicit term of "The Balance". That Mab would have to forfeit reality, let the Outsiders overrrun the Gates, before Titania would "drag Mab personally into oblivion with her".
They are a BALANCE.
Finally
--- Quote from: Cold Days p334 ---"Winter and Summer are opposing forces of our world" She said. "But we are of our world"
--- End quote ---
Winter and Summer are "opposing forces" of the same world. Neither side would want to forfeit reality to the Outsiders. They are a balance. As states and confirmed by Mother Summer.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on September 02, 2017, 02:35:48 AM ---No, no, no ... the President is not a figurehead. He IS the Commander in Chief, just like Mab is.
--- End quote ---
Figure head of military might when he himself is not a military asset, figurehead.
--- Quote ---That is an assumption. We don't know that's the case.
--- End quote ---
Actually with the eye and his direct reference to 'listening' to the future, we do. ;p
--- Quote ---Okay, it is said in the books that the forces at the outer gate are Winter forces (with some Summer who help).
It is also said that these forces, that are Winter, outnumber summer by like a "Kagillion to one".
So, like I've been saying, there is no balance between the courts. Winter outweighs Summer by like a "Kagillion to one".
--- End quote ---
The courts weigh each other perfectly. winter forces outweight summer forces. The courts themselves were called to battle with each other and non of this unbalanced crap came up with it. The one time the courts were specifically unbalanced it messed with all of reality via toad rain. Winter and summer courts are tied to the weather, the weather isn't in an ice age, ergo the courts are not unbalanced.
--- Quote ---Titania is the balance against Mab in the event that she pulls the forces off of the wall to attack reality, thus promoting the current lady, who would be expected to send the forces back to the outer gates.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't make them all part of the same leverage, point of fact we know said leverage is toward the outsiders not toward anything inside Summer.
kazimmoinuddin:
I am thinking the fomor are made out of factions the Sihde defeated and destroyed when they rose to power. So eventually the fomor will enact their revenge.
The table is the seat of power for the courts, some how unifying the differing powers. Since the fomor are they themselves made multiple different groups, they must have something akin to the table. I suggested that to defeat the fomor, They would go after the beings of power. But what if instead they struck at this convergence of power. The knight mantle when the host dies can be recalled to the table, so I wonder if the powers of the court are similarly tied to the fomor version.
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