The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Hierarchy of the Courts
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 30, 2017, 02:24:15 AM ---The outer gates down count toward the balance(iirc correctly, there were summer troops up there too, as medics)When the queens summon the full extent of their power it calls out to all the fae even those unaligned directly. I calls to them as part of their power.
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How do you figure that? Oh, okay, I'll address it in your last point.
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It's also directly states in SK that summer has had the edge recently, which isn't possible including the OG's forces. An another proof they aren't part of it, in PG Harry releasing Summer Fire into winter's wellspring would have emptied the wall of defenders, that we know of it did not. or else they coulda rushed the wall then and there.
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Two things.
First in the book it said that when Harry did that ALL of winter felt it and started rushing to AT to defend it. It did not say that ANY actually arrived. Further we know that the Outer Gates are a LONG way away. Just because they are rushing toward AT does not mean that they actually made the trip. Once the "attack" was over, heck days later, all the troops at the Wall would have turned around and gone back to defending the Gates.
Second, we KNOW that Harry is an unreliable Narrator. We KNOW other times when Harry was just plain wrong. This is another example.
As to the Outsiders being able to rush the wall right then and there, maybe they did. By the time we saw the Gates in Cold Days, even the Gatekeeper said that it could go for years without any action, but that it was busy then. Its ENTIRELY within the realm of possibility that there were no attackers at the Gates then.
--- Quote ---Doesn't say anything about the courts it says So they are hers but that doesn't actually make them part of the court.[/b] Like the Marines and Navy seals are both American forces, but not of the same division. The Royal troops aren't part of the galaxy defense forces.
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That makes no sense. Both the Marines and the Navy are part of the American "Court". Just like all of Winter's forces are part of the Winter Court.
Also, the Marines are actually part of the Navy.
jonas:
--- Quote ---That makes no sense. Both the Marines and the Navy are part of the American "Court". Just like all of Winter's forces are part of the Winter Court.
Also, the Marines are actually part of the Navy
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--- Quote ---In the majority of countries, the marine force is part of the navy, but it can also be under the army like the Troupes de marine (French Marines) and Givati Brigade (Israeli Marines), or form an independent armed service branch like the United States Marine Corps and Royal Marines.
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So the idea they are both part of the court and not an independent division is purely your perspective on it. Seems to me if the warriors on the wall started panicking and running even if momentarily it could quickly lead to a route before they could recover themselves. Considering nobodies super pissed at Harry for leaving the gate open I tend to doubt it. it would have been lumped in by GK in TC as things that happened with irregularity and considerable consequence because of Dresden, as he was pointing out his possible 'crimes'.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 30, 2017, 08:10:54 PM --- So the idea they are both part of the court and not an independent division is purely your perspective on it. Seems to me if the warriors on the wall started panicking and running even if momentarily it could quickly lead to a route before they could recover themselves. Considering nobodies super pissed at Harry for leaving the gate open I tend to doubt it. it would have been lumped in by GK in TC as things that happened with irregularity and considerable consequence because of Dresden, as he was pointing out his possible 'crimes'.
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No, it's not my perspective.
All members of the United States Military are either citizens of the United States, or swear "fealty" to the officers placed in charge of them, thus effectively making them members of the "court" that is the US.
Other countries may do it differently, but ALL of them have one thing in common ... they work for, and support the country/court they work for.
This means they ARE part of the country/court. No, they are not nobles in the court, but they are members of the country/court.
As to the defenders at the Outer Gate, as I pointed out before, per the Gatekeeper, there are long stretches of time when there is no activity. That the present (during Cold Days) action was especially fierce. Considering that the action there is taking place 6 years after the events of Proven Guilty, there is no reason to believe that there was action going on during PG. Evidence to suggest that there was very little going on at the Outer Gates is that the Gatekeeper even sent a note to Harry to investigate black magic in Chicago. If the Gates were under siege, how did the Gatekeeper have time to KNOW about the black magic, let alone send a note?
jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on September 01, 2017, 03:51:58 PM ---No, it's not my perspective.
All members of the United States Military are either citizens of the United States, or swear "fealty" to the officers placed in charge of them, thus effectively making them members of the "court" that is the US.
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Marines don't take chain of command from Army leaders, or navy except at the highest levels. we're talking about to different forces with two different jobs/ chains of command, not the nation as a whole. Being a citizen of 'the court' doesn't put you in the Marines and neither does being a member of the army. Joining the marines puts you in the marines.
--- Quote ---Other countries may do it differently, but ALL of them have one thing in common ... they work for, and support the country/court they work for.
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Indeed but that's not changing them being there own thing. or lumping different divisions into one.
--- Quote ---This means they ARE part of the country/court. No, they are not nobles in the court, but they are members of the country/court.
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and in it's joint task force with another rival country instead of being in the standing army to stave off that same country.
As to the defenders at the Outer Gate, as I pointed out before, per the Gatekeeper, there are long stretches of time when there is no activity. That the present (during Cold Days) action was especially fierce.
--- Quote --- Considering that the action there is taking place 6 years after the events of Proven Guilty, there is no reason to believe that there was action going on during PG.
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Nor is there especially reason to believe it's dead there by that regard, which I don't agree with, but don't need to farther match with a different reasoning than yours.
--- Quote --- Evidence to suggest that there was very little going on at the Outer Gates is that the Gatekeeper even sent a note to Harry to investigate black magic in Chicago. If the Gates were under siege, how did the Gatekeeper have time to KNOW about the black magic, let alone send a note?
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;D he sifts through the future and this is specifically one of those things everybody says he got from futuretense premonition type abilities. Someone who's precognitive tends to make time, when they have the time. Or ya know, just make the time themselves.
Since we don't know when PG happened relative to actual time anyway...
Here's another one, In SK the queens are sending out summons to all in the court to join them or choose a side amongst the wyld(which i'm sure whomever was already wintery felt her call stronger and vice versa), but on the battlefield Mab's forces are not gigantic by comparison, but they were specifically summoning/calling their courts to them. and she didn't call all her forces their either.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jonas on September 01, 2017, 08:04:49 PM ---Marines don't take chain of command from Army leaders, or navy except at the highest levels. we're talking about to different forces with two different jobs/ chains of command, not the nation as a whole. Being a citizen of 'the court' doesn't put you in the Marines and neither does being a member of the army. Joining the marines puts you in the marines.
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I'm not following you here. The Army, the Navy, and the Marines are all part of the "country" or Court. No, they are not part of each others chains of command.
What I don't you're getting is that Winter's forces are ALL part of the same chain of command. And sitting on top of that chain is Mab (with a nod to Mother Winter).
Or are you suggesting that Winter and Summer are like the Army and Marines?
--- Quote ---;D he sifts through the future and this is specifically one of those things everybody says he got from futuretense premonition type abilities. Someone who's precognitive tends to make time, when they have the time. Or ya know, just make the time themselves.
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Huh? If he's busy fighting at the wall, then he has no time.
--- Quote ---Since we don't know when PG happened relative to actual time anyway...
Here's another one, In SK the queens are sending out summons to all in the court to join them or choose a side amongst the wyld(which i'm sure whomever was already wintery felt her call stronger and vice versa), but on the battlefield Mab's forces are not gigantic by comparison, but they were specifically summoning/calling their courts to them. and she didn't call all her forces their either.
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Actually we KNOW that Mab's forces ARE Gigantic in comparison to Summer's. If she was to bring them in from the Outer Gates, neither Summer, nor our Reality could stand against her. Only Titania could take Mab down personally, but the Forces at Mab's disposal are overwhelming.
Harry just didn't know that in SK.
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