The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Bob's Personality, and Justin
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 17, 2017, 07:49:03 PM ---See above, it's the soul that's the mortal affliction on theses soulless immortals. It's the soul that carries it. they lack soul intentionally, (if all mantles are broken down from graces and angels are ALL soul.. then what did they remove from the Grace to just get a mantle? the soul) i'd have to go back to scratch and come at this from the collective subconscious, Nemesis Mirrors your shadow, ect theorem... do you really want me to do that? :( I get tired of running uphill sometimes.
*we definitely need to have a discussion an mantles and immortals you and me. work out some detail together :)
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What Mortal Affliction are you talking about, because the only person that ever used that phrase was Maeve, in reference to "mortal notions. Good, evil, love. All those other things your kind natter on about" and in a conversation where we Know she was Lying.
--- Quote from: jonas on August 17, 2017, 07:44:50 PM ---Can we prove the Mantle isn't Nfected? I figured that's why Mab bothered to cleanse the WK mantle, it would have went through her to get back to Harry without a cleansing otherwise.. Look at it this way, The mantle is Nfected/off balance but the host is not. That's the whole point to having a mantle yes? The ability to resist as the mortal host, add on starborn and then you can resist and remold the mantle you wear.
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I mean, we have evidence in the fact that it didnt Nemfect Molly. We've even been inside her head since then, with no sinister indications. Short of Jim or Rashid stating it directly, I dont know what more you'd need.
--- Quote ---And why Cat Sith failed out? He's the thing itself, maybe a Eldest mantle but no kitty underneath. Lets reword it then, That the formative difference between Bob and a Mantle is Bob's 'deal' is different, the Mantle lives in the Host. The connections the same, the influence is the same, it's all the same except Bob is defined differently.
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I dont think this can be the case. Per WOJ the Eldest is a Mantle, specifically in reference to Cat Sith, and it would pass to the next Eldest. So that means that Eldest does not mean Progenitor, and so the Current eldest has to have formerly been a "kitty underneath", no?
--- Quote ---I wanna disagree, but I can't remember the precise wordings when they were introduced lol.
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--- Quote from: WN Ch. 43 ---"Part of my soul is gone and I'm not supposed to be worried about that?" I demanded.
"Happens all the time," Bob said. "You shared a bunch of yours with Susan, and she with you. It's what protected you from Lara Raith. You and Murphy swapped some pretty recently, looks like—you must have gotten a hug or something. Honestly, Harry, you really ought to bang her and get it over wi—"
I reached under the worktable, drew out a claw hammer, and gave Bob a pointed look.
"Um, right," he said. "Back to business. Uh, your soul. You give away pieces of yourself all the time. Everyone does. Some of it goes out with your magic, too. It grows back. Relax, boss."
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jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on August 17, 2017, 08:07:44 PM ---Are you talking about it passing through the Stone Table?
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Yes, according to SK when the knight passes it simply goes to the nearest reflection of itself, one of the queens. So it woulda went right to her and then she could bestow it on Harry. But instead she involves the stone table and a knife of credible pedigree for.. and I can't remember precisely how it was wojed, events of proportionally larger importance. Sure she ate him up into it gaining a bit of power to Winter, but then what's the dagger for?
Looongg time ago I theorized it actually was originally used against N infecting Jason through the golden fleece. He left his wife and family for riches wealth and power and then Medea killed him and made him eat his children... If she's not the bad guy in that there has to be something to it right lol?
Rasins:
See, I don't recall the Stone Table being part of Mab giving Harry the Mantle. I don't recall the mantle going THOUGH the table. I do recall Slate's blood going into the table and his lifeforce going into it.
But then I think Mab, the current owner of the Table that time, used Slate's life-force to heal Harry. The Mantle itself went to Mab (even though we didn't see a smokey thing moving like we did with the ladies mantles) and Mab bestowed it on Harry.
Now, let's assume it did go though the Table and the table filtered out the Nemfection. Where did that waste product go? Is it still in the Stone table? Is the Stone Table now infected?
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 17, 2017, 08:14:20 PM ---What Mortal Affliction are you talking about, because the only person that ever used that phrase was Maeve, in reference to "mortal notions. Good, evil, love. All those other things your kind natter on about" and in a conversation where we Know she was Lying.
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Where she was discovering it actually, near the end she lies for first time, you can tell cause the ability surprises her. Also Woj about spending to long with humans and we did it..(i'll look, I know it's pretty old, should be just off the main list still)
--- Quote ---I mean, we have evidence in the fact that it didnt Nemfect Molly. We've even been inside her head since then, with no sinister indications. Short of Jim or Rashid stating it directly, I dont know what more you'd need.
And why Cat Sith failed out? He's the thing itself, maybe a Eldest mantle but no kitty underneath. Lets reword it then, That the formative difference between Bob and a Mantle is Bob's 'deal' is different, the Mantle lives in the Host. The connections the same, the influence is the same, it's all the same except Bob is defined differently.
I dont think this can be the case. Per WOJ the Eldest is a Mantle, specifically in reference to Cat Sith, and it would pass to the next Eldest. So that means that Eldest does not mean Progenitor, and so the Current eldest has to have formerly been a "kitty underneath", no?
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I'm goin g to call back your previous statement for a more thorough look, get back to above later..
I meant no mortal being, he was always a malk, always fae. He's an immortal with a position as apposed to a mortal assuming an immortal position.
--- Quote ---Maeve was Nemfected, not the Winter Lady Mantle, as evidenced by Molly not being Nemfected when the mantle took her. Ditto Aurora and Lily. Had Nemfection been capable of sticking to the mantle, then Mab would have already long since Lost and non of the event of Cold Days would have been needed.
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We previously asserted we had seen no mortals Nfected but here your saying it was the mortal Host Not the mantle/deity itself... :( this is part of why sometimes I feel ppl just look to prove wrong without actually thinking about what their saying... it's either the host, or the mantle/thing itself that's infected, how can it be both?
jonas:
--- Quote from: Rasins on August 17, 2017, 08:22:21 PM ---See, I don't recall the Stone Table being part of Mab giving Harry the Mantle. I don't recall the mantle going THOUGH the table. I do recall Slate's blood going into the table and his lifeforce going into it.
But then I think Mab, the current owner of the Table that time, used Slate's life-force to heal Harry. The Mantle itself went to Mab (even though we didn't see a smokey thing moving like we did with the ladies mantles) and Mab bestowed it on Harry.
Now, let's assume it did go though the Table and the table filtered out the Nemfection. Where did that waste product go? Is it still in the Stone table? Is the Stone Table now infected?
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And if the Sk when through it then all of the SK's power would have went to winter yes? She essentially unmade and remade the mantle for Harry as opposed to bestowing the mantle to him by it going directly back to her. By killing him on the table it effectively killed the mantle while giving her back it's power, as opposed to taking in a potentially tainted WK mantle.
Since you asked, the table kills the associated consciousness and 'spirit' while preserving the power itself... It's a way around the you are what you eat Guide. That unfortunately has the potential to leave a lot of 'dead' conscious minds not yet forgotten by humanity into Oblivion, yet trying to find their way back in.
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