The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Bob's Personality, and Justin
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 17, 2017, 07:03:11 PM --- can ya give me some references for that inference? Cause i'm not sure what you mean.
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Maeve was Nemfected, not the Winter Lady Mantle, as evidenced by Molly not being Nemfected when the mantle took her. Ditto Aurora and Lily. Had Nemfection been capable of sticking to the mantle, then Mab would have already long since Lost and non of the event of Cold Days would have been needed.
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Perhaps. And I do see merit most immortals are broken off of the same sources, but I see something else there too. Let's go ahead and make that bet if you like? The bet is, after PT i'll not have such trouble persuading ppl Bob's a mini deity :)
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Not a fair bet, that only happens if we get a new and/or more specific definition of "diety"
Fwiw though, I have no particularissues with calling Bob a mini-diety, it's calling him a souled being that I disagree with.
--- Quote ---Now... that's a good point. But it's making a leap between friendship and true love I don't think is there. Unless your saying Murphy and Harry were indelibly and equally in love in SmF? I thought that comradery and other things the soul is made of beside love itself would work, since 'true love' isn't really a formative of friendship itself.
Unless your also saying the soul is equal to love, but that's like saying soul is equal to magic isn't it? ;)
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Im not equating Friendship and True Love, though I do personally think they could be called degrees of the same thing. What I am doing is attributing the the two instances of Soul-Chunk exchange to the same mechanism (which was the context they were introduced by bob, back in WN), and by extension applying the same limitations to both. Soul Exchanged in a moment of True Love keeps the extra energies of True Love, but it's the Soul exchange that makes it a lasting protection on a person (by contrast Object absorb that energy via some other mechanism). And thus Id argue that /any/ Soul Exchange requires a two-way "exchange" and by extension that the two need to be equals. I could be wrong though, this is more based on impressions than evidence.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 17, 2017, 07:23:17 PM ---And yet the atheme transferred an infection of the soul, but it has none of it's own? It gave a out a Mortal affliction.
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No, it hasn't. In fact it has very notably not yet infected anyone /with/ a Soul, let alone infected a Soul directly.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 17, 2017, 07:30:51 PM ---Maeve was Nemfected, not the Winter Lady Mantle, as evidenced by Molly not being Nemfected when the mantle took her. Ditto Aurora and Lily. Had Nemfection been capable of sticking to the mantle, then Mab would have already long since Lost and non of the event of Cold Days would have been needed.
Not a fair bet, that only happens if we get a new and/or more specific definition of "diety"
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Can we prove the Mantle isn't Nfected? I figured that's why Mab bothered to cleanse the WK mantle, it would have went through her to get back to Harry without a cleansing otherwise.. Look at it this way, The mantle is Nfected/off balance but the host is not. That's the whole point to having a mantle yes? The ability to resist as the mortal host, add on starborn and then you can resist and remold the mantle you wear. And why Cat Sith failed out? He's the thing itself, maybe a Eldest mantle but no kitty underneath. Lets reword it then, That the formative difference between Bob and a Mantle is Bob's 'deal' is different, the Mantle lives in the Host. The connections the same, the influence is the same, it's all the same except Bob is defined differently.
--- Quote ---Fwiw though, I have no particularissues with calling Bob a mini-diety, it's calling him a souled being that I disagree with.
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It's more toward Magic/soul connection. It's where Nemesis slips in and changes imo. Lash had no soul but changed based on transference from Dresden, transference that largely happened because of the relationship communicating with each other NOT because she simply lived in his head.(what means fwiw anyway?)
--- Quote ---Im not equating Friendship and True Love, though I do personally think they could be called degrees of the same thing. What I am doing is attributing the the two instances of Soul-Chunk exchange to the same mechanism (which was the context they were introduced by bob, back in WN), and by extension applying the same limitations to both. Soul Exchanged in a moment of True Love keeps the extra energies of True Love, but it's the Soul exchange that makes it a lasting protection on a person (by contrast Object absorb that energy via some other mechanism). And thus Id argue that /any/ Soul Exchange requires a two-way "exchange" and by extension that the two need to be equals. I could be wrong though, this is more based on impressions than evidence.
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I wanna disagree, but I can't remember the precise wordings when they were introduced lol.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 17, 2017, 07:32:07 PM --- No, it hasn't. In fact it has very notably not yet infected anyone /with/ a Soul, let alone infected a Soul directly.
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See above, it's the soul that's the mortal affliction on theses soulless immortals. It's the soul that carries it. they lack soul intentionally, (if all mantles are broken down from graces and angels are ALL soul.. then what did they remove from the Grace to just get a mantle? the soul) i'd have to go back to scratch and come at this from the collective subconscious, Nemesis Mirrors your shadow, ect theorem... do you really want me to do that? :( I get tired of running uphill sometimes.
*we definitely need to have a discussion an mantles and immortals you and me. work out some detail together :)
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 17, 2017, 07:44:50 PM ---Can we prove the Mantle isn't Nfected? I figured that's why Mab bothered to cleanse the WK mantle, it would have went through her to get back to Harry without a cleansing otherwise.. Look at it this way, The mantle is Nfected/off balance but the host is not. That's the whole point to having a mantle yes? The ability to resist as the mortal host, add on starborn and then you can resist and remold the mantle you wear. And why Cat Sith failed out? He's the thing itself, maybe a Eldest mantle but no kitty underneath. Lets reword it then, That the formative difference between Bob and a Mantle is Bob's 'deal' is different, the Mantle lives in the Host. The connections the same, the influence is the same, it's all the same except Bob is defined differently.
It's more toward Magic/soul connection. It's where Nemesis slips in and changes imo. Lash had no soul but changed based on transference from Dresden, transference that largely happened because of the relationship communicating with each other NOT because she simply lived in his head.(what means fwiw anyway?)I wanna disagree, but I can't remember the precise wordings when they were introduced lol.
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Are you talking about it passing through the Stone Table?
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