The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 17, 2017, 07:49:11 PM ---She also had good reason to believe he was dead in Ghost Story, so why weren't her first words to Harry, "HARRY! YOU'RE ALIVE! I thought you were dead, what happened?"
--- End quote ---
That was weird, wasn't it? Molly was the only one who knew Harry wasn't dead. Andi was right to wonder if she was dealing with Harry or an impostor. Thomas' reaction; his anger, was entirely believable. Murphy said she heard about explosions. Actually these are her exact words:
Harry - "Yeah," I said. "How'd you find me?"
Karrin - "Scanner. The last time a bomb went off in this town, it was in your office building. I hear another one goes off in the street, and then reports of explosions and gunfire out over the lake just after dawn this morning. Math wasn't hard to do."
Seriously? With the Fomor, the White Court and Marcone all staking a claim to the city those noises could have signified battles between any two or all three of those parties. I think a more believable reaction might have been if Murphy had mentioned the bomb, explosions and gunfire and said that she "hoped that only Harry Dresden could be at the heart of such chaos."
There was one other thing missing from Karrin Murphy's reaction to seeing Harry alive again. Karrin Murphy didn't say, "I'm glad your back" or "I'm glad your alive Harry." Even with her concerns about what Mab might have done to him, you'd think Murphy might have expressed some positive emotion at seeing Harry in the flesh again. Instead she went straight to the accusations.
Actually, now that I think about it, Butters reaction to a living, breathing Harry was also a bit strange. You'd think that after talking to someone's ghost you would want to know how they got their body back. In Butters defense it could be argued that he was preoccupied sewing up Harry's wounds at the time, but I'm surprised that Butters; or anyone else for that matter, didn't press Harry for any details about his out of body experiences. Granted Harry's response couldn't have gone much farther than, "I don't have time to explain it all now, if we survive the next twenty-four hours you can ask all the questions you want and I'll answer as best I can," or something like that.
I feel like there is an entire conversation; or maybe two, missing from Cold Days that Jim either decided not to write or did write and decided to scrap or drastically shorten.
Zaphodess:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 19, 2017, 09:10:42 AM ---That was weird, wasn't it?
--- End quote ---
I dunno. She must have been pretty confused and wary. She had a hard time accepting Harry's death and finally managed to in GS. Then the guy seems to be back. It could have been an impostor after all. I think she didn't trust her own feelings and reverted to safe mode. For her, that's going on the offensive.
Mira:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 19, 2017, 09:10:42 AM ---That was weird, wasn't it? Molly was the only one who knew Harry wasn't dead. Andi was right to wonder if she was dealing with Harry or an impostor. Thomas' reaction; his anger, was entirely believable. Murphy said she heard about explosions. Actually these are her exact words:
Harry - "Yeah," I said. "How'd you find me?"
Karrin - "Scanner. The last time a bomb went off in this town, it was in your office building. I hear another one goes off in the street, and then reports of explosions and gunfire out over the lake just after dawn this morning. Math wasn't hard to do."
Seriously? With the Fomor, the White Court and Marcone all staking a claim to the city those noises could have signified battles between any two or all three of those parties. I think a more believable reaction might have been if Murphy had mentioned the bomb, explosions and gunfire and said that she "hoped that only Harry Dresden could be at the heart of such chaos."
There was one other thing missing from Karrin Murphy's reaction to seeing Harry alive again. Karrin Murphy didn't say, "I'm glad your back" or "I'm glad your alive Harry." Even with her concerns about what Mab might have done to him, you'd think Murphy might have expressed some positive emotion at seeing Harry in the flesh again. Instead she went straight to the accusations.
Actually, now that I think about it, Butters reaction to a living, breathing Harry was also a bit strange. You'd think that after talking to someone's ghost you would want to know how they got their body back. In Butters defense it could be argued that he was preoccupied sewing up Harry's wounds at the time, but I'm surprised that Butters; or anyone else for that matter, didn't press Harry for any details about his out of body experiences. Granted Harry's response couldn't have gone much farther than, "I don't have time to explain it all now, if we survive the next twenty-four hours you can ask all the questions you want and I'll answer as best I can," or something like that.
I feel like there is an entire conversation; or maybe two, missing from Cold Days that Jim either decided not to write or did write and decided to scrap or drastically shorten.
--- End quote ---
I agree about Butters, because Bob in Ghost Story also had a good idea that Harry might not be dead.. Or rather something was very strange because Harry was a naked soul not a spirit. But that stuff is even beyond Bob's pay grade so he might not have talked about it with Butters... Or if he did, his information may have been influenced by his own fears of the Winter Court and Winter Knights in general.
Mr. Death:
A few of you have hit the points I wanted to already, so I'm not gonna retread much. I will say this:
A. Mira: Butters is an adult. I think he might even be a couple years older than Murphy. Murphy is not in any way responsible for his opinions or actions, especially when we see her directly trying to change his opinion and Butters stubbornly keeping to distrusting Dresden.
Butters is not a child. He is a big boy. So why do you not hold him as responsible for his own opinions and behaviors as you seem to hold Murphy responsible for it?
B.
--- Quote ---Seriously? With the Fomor, the White Court and Marcone all staking a claim to the city those noises could have signified battles between any two or all three of those parties. I think a more believable reaction might have been if Murphy had mentioned the bomb, explosions and gunfire and said that she "hoped that only Harry Dresden could be at the heart of such chaos."
--- End quote ---
The Fomor, White Court and Marcone have something in common -- they're relatively subtle. The Fomor make under-the-table deals with crooked cops. They grab people in such a way that nobody notices until so-and-so doesn't show up at the end of a bus ride. They're not bombing places, because that's counterproductive -- their ideal victim is someone who feels safe. The White Court are all about subtlety. Marcone is invested in keeping the peace, for the most part, because explosions are bad for business.
Plus, Murphy is working with the White Court and Marcone against the Fomor -- if it was fighting between them, chances are she'd already know about it, either because she'd helped plan it, or she was being called in as backup. Or she'd heard it on the scanner and checked in with everyone else to see if it was them.
The Supernatural "war" going on is going on in such a way that the normies don't seem to notice. I imagine there is very little out-and-out fighting, mostly back-alley skirmishes and the odd assassination.
And then suddenly there's like four explosions in a day. If we take it as a given that Murphy is sure it isn't the Fomor, White Court or Marcone, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to guess that Harry Blackstone That Explosion Totally Wasn't My Fault Guys Copperfield Dresden might be involved.
C. Let's say, totally hypothetically, that I went on a full on Vegas bender over the weekend with a friend. I'm talking hookers, blow, gambling, one or two quickly-annulled marriages, stealing Mike Tyson's pet tiger, etc.
One of my coworkers saw me leaving work and said have a nice weekend on Friday.
A friend of mine saw me the Tuesday after, getting lunch.
Now, what you appear to be saying, Mira, is that based on the opinion of the two people who saw me before and after the bender, I was totally OK to drive throughout the whole weekend. And that the friend who was there hauling my drunk ass to the bathroom to puke my guts out was totally wrong to take my keys away.
Does that make any sense?
So I'm going to ask again, and make it as clear as possible just what I'm asking:
What during Cold Days indicates that Harry in the state he is in during Cold Days should have the Swords during Cold Days?
D. On Murphy's custodianship of the Swords: Michael never says she was wrong to have them. Over the course of two years, she kept them safe.
During Skin Game, recall that Amoracchius is at Michael's house, which is exactly where it needed to be. Murphy decided to put it there. And putting the Sword exactly where it needs to be is exactly the sort of thing a custodian is supposed to do.
Michael said when it comes to the Swords, he doesn't believe in accidents. He did not then add, "Except for whatever Murphy does."
How can you accept that Butters getting the Sword through Harry's botched toss is Exactly According To God's Plan and say that Murphy putting Amoracchius exactly where it needed to be is a total accident?
E.
--- Quote ---Not the same thing, Harry did keep the facts about Mr Grey from Murphy... However I think it was also pointed out that her house was not a secured spot.. Only Demonreach or a spot with blocks put on by Mab would be safe from Adriel's eavesdropping.. The mission depended on Mr Grey's double agent status, so yeah, he had to keep that from her, he kept it from Michael... Not at all the same thing as her telling him the Swords cannot be used, Harry thinks one is needed.. Telling him she knows because she has faith implying that he didn't. Saying she had no desire to be a Knight for the mission because she doesn't believe in redemption for Denarians... But then she proceeds to conceal the Sword and take it with her, after her speech on the subject had to have reached Nic.. She says nothing to Harry about this, and proceeds to get it broken...
--- End quote ---
Mira: All of those reasons for secrecy also apply to Murphy.
So again: Why does Harry hiding information to have a trump card get a pass, but Murphy hiding information in the exact same way, for the exact same reasons, indicate she doesn't trust Harry?
Again, I see a double standard.
In one case, we have two characters taking the exact same kind of action for the same exact reasons, but one is vilified for it.
In another case, Butters expresses and acts on extreme distrust for Dresden, and you're holding Murphy accountable for Butters' distrust and actions, despite Murphy vocally and explicitly advising against him distrusting Harry. That simply does not make any sense.
DonBugen, I will get to your reply soon. Doin' some catch-up here.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on August 21, 2017, 04:56:58 PM ---
The Supernatural "war" going on is going on in such a way that the normies don't seem to notice.
--- End quote ---
Oh, they've noticed it, they just don't understand what it is that they're seeing. It's being chalked up to crime waves, gang violence, etc.
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