The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Gman on August 16, 2017, 07:09:00 AM ---Murphy worked with Marcone, not for him. Just as the US and the British worked with Stalin against Hitler. Sometimes you can't choose your allies.
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Yeah, but...when the alliance is unequal enough, it starts to look a lot like a patron/client relationship. I'm sure Karrin would say she merely worked with the lesser evil against the greater, and believe it because she needs to believe it, but...
Marcone puts up the money that lets the Chicago Alliance operate.
Marcone provides access to the supernatural backup they require (via Monoc).
It's the threat of Marcone's vengeance that keeps their supernatural enemies from coming after Karrin's family.
Etc.
Butters understood the nature of the relationship more clearly then Karrin was willing to, at least in Ghost Story. He knew that Marcone was the real Final Authority over the Alliance's actions, not Karrin.
It's fair to say that Karrin doesn't work for Marcone..quite. But their alliance is far from equal.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 16, 2017, 02:00:58 PM ---Titania was apparently fairly close to Aurora, and best evidence puts her nemfection at GP timeframe at the latest.
--- End quote ---
Do we know that Aurora was Nemfected? Has JB confirmed that?
Mira:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on August 17, 2017, 04:05:33 AM ---Do we know that Aurora was Nemfected? Has JB confirmed that?
--- End quote ---
There might be a WOJ that confirms it, but I haven't seen it.. However I am not the keeper of the WOJs. It is a logical deduction given her behavior, unless of course she was just flat out insane.
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 16, 2017, 08:16:29 PM --- I think some are thinking that it is a right or a wrong with whether or not Murphy trust Harry totally.. It is clear that she doesn't... She may have had good reasons considering the Winter Mantle and all, but her not giving the Swords back to Harry and the issue of Bob, says she doesn't... End of story.. Harry gives into her because he completely trust her judgement.. He trusts her judgement so much that it makes him question everything about himself.
Again, her reasons for not trusting Harry may have been good, she still doesn't trust him as of Skin Game, because she still won't release the Swords to Harry's care, though their custody was something she took upon herself, yet she implies that it was handed to her by divine judgement, with a dig that she knows because she has faith and Harry doesn't. Now this doesn't make her a bad person, she may have been totally right not to completely trust Harry because of what he had been though... But while those issues remained, and they did up until the shattering of the Sword, love or no love, in spite of what she said to Butters about complete trust, Murphy did not completely trust Harry.. Either she was lying to Butters to make him feel better, or something worse.. She does trust Harry completely but has her own agenda.. It may not be all that sinister either, she may have wanted to keep control of the Swords because she felt that she was losing influence.
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I have to take issue with the part I highlighted. If you are just referring to Harry's behavior in Cold Days, you may have a point though one I don't entirely agree with, but long before the events in CD Harry has questioned himself for a long time without Murphy's help. Now, if you are specifically referring to Harry deferring to Murphy's judgement in Cold Days, remember that before Murphy appeared in the story Harry was wondering why he was having graphic violent and sexual thoughts and images popping into his brain when he was dealing with Andi, Molly and Lily. So whatever Murphy's motives were, she wasn't simply expressing her own opinion and Harry just gave in because he trusts her, she was expressing concerns that were already starting to take shape in Harry's mind.
Mira:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 17, 2017, 06:34:17 AM ---I have to take issue with the part I highlighted. If you are just referring to Harry's behavior in Cold Days, you may have a point though one I don't entirely agree with, but long before the events in CD Harry has questioned himself for a long time without Murphy's help. Now, if you are specifically referring to Harry deferring to Murphy's judgement in Cold Days, remember that before Murphy appeared in the story Harry was wondering why he was having graphic violent and sexual thoughts and images popping into his brain when he was dealing with Andi, Molly and Lily. So whatever Murphy's motives were, she wasn't simply expressing her own opinion and Harry just gave in because he trusts her, she was expressing concerns that were already starting to take shape in Harry's mind.
--- End quote ---
I don't disagree with that actually, and Harry was questioning what was happening to him before she said anything. The reality in Cold Days was any normal urge or reaction suddenly became on steroids because of the mantle.. Normal sexual attraction to a woman became a sudden urge to rape etc.. Normal upset became an anger management problem etc.. I don't question Murphy's motives at all there. What I had a problem with then, and more so in Skin Game is she goes into an almost preaching mode, or yeah, a preaching mode telling Harry his problems and why he is doing this or that. No questions and no listening on her part. She does this because she thinks she knows Harry that well and she thinks she understands what he is doing.. But she is wrong because since Changes everything has changed with Harry.
When he goes to see her in Skin Game after being on the island for a year, she goes into he stayed out there because he wanted to isolate himself from his friends and avoid his daughter.. Well, while she is right about his fear of meeting his daughter for the first time, that wasn't the reason he was there. Since she had visited him a few times she may have or should have picked up on why he couldn't leave.. While she is well meaning in all of that it isn't all that helpful, and because Harry trusts her implicitly and a series of other events take place he ends up at Michael's house tied in knots and in tears.. He is hurt physically true, but his main malady are his fears and his more or less one sided conversations with Murphy made him believe most of them. Michael on the other hand while and after he set Harry's arm, asked pointed questions and patiently listened to Harry's answers, revealing a lot of them..
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