The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
On Nemesis and Why it can't / doesn't infect Humans
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on June 07, 2017, 06:17:56 PM ---Well the ocean can't really be the source of mortal magic (e.g. the way TWG is the source of Michael's faith magic), so that wouldn't quite fit the WAG but in general, sure.
--- End quote ---
True I suppose. Though ::tinfoil hat ON:: Water Grounds Magic, and "All Life Came from the Ocean" sooo may the Spirit of the Ocean might qualify as the Source of All Magic in the World as an extension of being the Source of Life (or arguably 1/2 along with the Sun).
But in general I just mean that the WOJ description seems a really non-specific description that would apply any significant Power/Energy/Natural Force
knnn:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 07, 2017, 06:48:49 PM ---But in general I just mean that the WOJ description seems a really non-specific description that would apply any significant Power/Energy/Natural Force
--- End quote ---
Oh, I don't disagree, which is why I had "IF" in all caps. Note that Jim has said elsewhere that he wanted Harry's magic to be like a plumbing/engineering (as opposed to shamanistic).
That said, IF he was hinting at a divine source, Azathoth would be my personal choice.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on June 07, 2017, 07:02:34 PM ---Oh, I don't disagree, which is why I had "IF" in all caps. Note that Jim has said elsewhere that he wanted Harry's magic to be like a plumbing/engineering (as opposed to shamanistic).
That said, IF he was hinting at a divine source, Azathoth would be my personal choice.
--- End quote ---
That would be an interesting twist, though Im not sure how I feel about the idea that all magic, and by extension the energy of Life Itself, were to come from Outside or from anything quite that madness-inducing.
It also sounds like he might be on a larger scale than Id expect a much more local Source of Earthly Magic to be; If Im getting this right from wikipedia he's more or less the cosmic center of what TDF calls the "Outside", yes? I get the impression that the Outside (and thus Outsiders) are outside the branching of the Multiverse, whereas Id picture the Source of Earth Magic to be a local/universal thing more specific to the actual Life present on the planet. Thoughts?
Arjan:
Nemesis is a spiritual infection so I think everything with nature/spirit can in principle be infected. That apparently includes even a powerful object like the athame.
I think Peabody was infected.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 07, 2017, 08:08:55 PM ---That would be an interesting twist, though I'm not sure how I feel about the idea that all magic, and by extension the energy of Life Itself, were to come from Outside or from anything quite that madness-inducing.
--- End quote ---
<shrug>
It's not an uncommon trope that when you have enough Chaos you can occasionally randomly eventually get bubbles of Order. They might even be considered "temporary" from a "billions of years" perspective. The first chapter of Brust's "To Reign in Hell" is a good example of that.
(click to show/hide)Primordial ooze. Flux. Chaos. Cacoastrum.
The essential of the universe, in all its myriad forms and shapes. Essence.
Any and all combinations of form and shape exist within this essence. Eventually, of course, cacoastrum may deny itself. Order within chaos.
How many times is order created? The question has no meaning. A tree falls in the forest, and the universe hears it. Order doesn't last; cacoastrum will out.
The flux creates the essence of order, which is illiaster, which was the staff of life long before bread had the privilege. It can't last, however. Conscious? Sentient? Self-aware? Perhaps these things exist for a timeless instant, only to be lost again before they can begin to understand. They may have shape; they may have the seeds of thoughts—none of this matters. One of them may be a unicorn, another a greyish stone of unknown properties, still another a girl-child with big brown eyes who vanishes before she really appears. It doesn't matter.
But let us give to one of these forms something new. Let us give it, for the sake of argument, an instinct to survive. Ah! Now the game is different, you see.
So this form resists, and strives to hold itself together. And as it strives, cacoastrum and illiaster produce more illiaster, and consciousness produces more consciousness, and now there are two.
The two of them strive; and then they find that they can communicate, and time means something now. And space, as well.
As they work together, to hold onto themselves, a third one appears. They find that they can bend the cacoastrum to their will, and force shape upon it, and command it to hold, for a while. They build walls at this place where the three of them are, and a top and a bottom.
Cacoastrum howls, almost as a living thing itself, and seeks entry. The three resist, and then there are four, then five, then six, then seven.
And the seven finish the walls, and the top, and the bottom and for a moment, at last, there is peace from the storm.
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 07, 2017, 08:08:55 PM ---whereas Id picture the Source of Earth Magic to be a local/universal thing more specific to the actual Life present on the planet. Thoughts?
--- End quote ---
I would suggest that it has to be at least "local" to any place potentially accessible by Harry Dresden (i.e. the NN, Heaven/Hell, MM worlds, the Moon). To me, this me makes it feel general enough that the source for magic has to be something at least a bit multi-universal.
Somewhat related, there's also this WoJ (emphasis mine):
--- Quote from: Reddit 2012 AMA ---Everything revolves around /this/ earth, in the Dresden stories. But not necessarily around all (or even a majority of) the other earths that exist in the continuum of possibility created by free will. Other, parallel realities have other worlds playing a more central role, and some of them have earth in a nice quiet backwater, peaceful, relatively conflict free, and boring.
--- End quote ---
I don't think Earth can be "relatively conflict free" unless it is a universe where the Outsiders are not trying to get in. One possible reason for that is because in those universes there is no mortal magic on Earth and so nothing can summon Outsiders. So one possible ending for the BAT is that Harry permanently shuts off the world from the Outside at the cost of ending all mortal magic.
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