The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Current DR wardens
Dashkull:
--- Quote from: kazimmoinuddin on April 12, 2016, 12:11:27 AM ---While they could summon, the powerful entities potentially ignore the summons. The power of the island, and the darkness of the power, could be enough force and affinity allow for no summon to be unanswered. It is one thing for a creature to be summoned, it is another for them to be bound. So once brought to the island, the island and warden would be forced to fight. Admitted on the island, the warden has access to great power, but fighting well worth beings will allays be tricky.
If summoned, would they only be brought to the surface or into the well? It does not seem secure to bring an unbound prisoner into the cell block.
--- End quote ---
Having the proper bait to get the beings to the island is probably that tricky part. As for binding the creature once its there. Demonreach apparently had the power to grab and bind a (more or less) full-powered Mab once she was physically standing on the island. DR has some chops. Of course the beings worth imprisoning on the island will have a lot of power too, and will definitely fight back. But Demonreach's power in such a conflict would be so much greater than Harry's that he would probably factor very little into the fight. IIRC correctly, Harry said something to the effect of wanting to be somewhere over the horizon if DR started swinging in earnest against an enemy.
Unless he had a Name to work with, or something. Or, maybe there is something in the islands architecture that we dont know about for such a fight, like weaponizing the stones from the cottage that repelled shagnasty. The real question is whether or not we will ever actually get to see such a fight. I really really hope so :).
Lawgiver:
--- Quote from: Serack on April 11, 2016, 06:55:27 PM ---It seems evident that long ago, among the community of Wizards, there was a "Warden" singular who was responsible for Demonreach. Since that day, the actual duty has apparently fallen into general obscurity, yet in the mean time, the community of Wizards has had a need for militant enforcers of the Laws of Magic, and that body collectively and individually bares the same name. How the Demonreach "Warden" and the enforcer "warden" came to share the same name is lost to us the reader, but it seems Demonreach is aware of the connection, as he acknowledges it...
--- End quote ---
I find it interesting that such an important facet of WC history is "lost" or "fallen into general obscurity"...
Wizards live much longer than mortals, so their tendency to lose information over time should be commensurately reduced.
The "average" mortal life expectancy (even when factoring in regional fluctuations) is currently around 75-ish years, with high end outliers at a century or more.
Wizardly "top end outliers" seem to be about 400 years (Ancient Mai and any like her). If the ratio above holds with Wizards of the "average" being at roughly 3/4ths of the top end... then Wizards should have an average life expectancy of about 300 years -- right about at 4x as long as mortals.
Merlin created DR (put the multi-temporal aspect aside for now). Arthurian Lore - including Merlin - occurred somewhere in the 250A.D. to 500A.D. timeframe. That's ~1500 years ago. For mortals that would be more than 20 generations, but for Wizards it's only about 5 to 6.
5 - 6 mortal generations would be roughly the time of the American Revolution or shortly afterwards.
Why would Wizards, notorious information gathers and hoarders, "forget" something like DR - or anything about it. We haven't forgotten big events from the Revolutionary period.
Seems to me that someone's hiding information about this - which, of course, Wizards are also known for. Rashid and Eb both seemed shocked and a little disturbed when they found Harry had done a Sanctum Invocation there... I presume they were aware of DR - what it is for, etc. - and of what Harry had actually done...
Maybe it's only Senior Council who knows... "need to know only" and all that...
I'm more of the opinion that instead of "losing" knowledge re DR, they've deliberately separated themselves from it for some odd reason. There hasn't been a singular Warden in a long time because they haven't wanted there to be.
I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop... but I think the idea might have some merit... I just don't have any good data to base it on.
/sigh
raidem:
I'm of the belief that what we see of Demonreach is only the tip of the iceberg in this time, this reality. I don't believe Merlin created it all but placed his enchantments on a pre-existing construct. Perhaps some manner of this prison already existed and Merlin with the help of some greater powers linked a mortal gateway to this existing construct. The Demonreach we perceive only exists in some subset of timelines, and realities.
I once and maybe still do believe Demonreach is realities belly button. Its placement on Earth is what makes Earth the center of the universe for the inside outside war, at least for the subset of realities that are germane to our story. There is a woj that suggests that in some realities Earth isn't the center point for the war but another place in the universe is. For those realities, I believe a similar belly button exists at those priority locations.
So, in summary, when some "God" created the dresdenverse there was something resembling a umbilical cord where the wall between inside and outside was the thinnest. Its at those locations in the metaverse that things become 'wierd'.
Serack:
--- Quote from: Lawgiver on April 12, 2016, 03:24:58 PM ---I find it interesting that such an important facet of WC history is "lost" or "fallen into general obscurity"...
Wizards live much longer than mortals, so their tendency to lose information over time should be commensurately reduced.
The "average" mortal life expectancy (even when factoring in regional fluctuations) is currently around 75-ish years, with high end outliers at a century or more.
Wizardly "top end outliers" seem to be about 400 years (Ancient Mai and any like her). If the ratio above holds with Wizards of the "average" being at roughly 3/4ths of the top end... then Wizards should have an average life expectancy of about 300 years -- right about at 4x as long as mortals.
Merlin created DR (put the multi-temporal aspect aside for now). Arthurian Lore - including Merlin - occurred somewhere in the 250A.D. to 500A.D. timeframe. That's ~1500 years ago. For mortals that would be more than 20 generations, but for Wizards it's only about 5 to 6.
5 - 6 mortal generations would be roughly the time of the American Revolution or shortly afterwards.
Why would Wizards, notorious information gathers and hoarders, "forget" something like DR - or anything about it. We haven't forgotten big events from the Revolutionary period.
Seems to me that someone's hiding information about this - which, of course, Wizards are also known for. Rashid and Eb both seemed shocked and a little disturbed when they found Harry had done a Sanctum Invocation there... I presume they were aware of DR - what it is for, etc. - and of what Harry had actually done...
Maybe it's only Senior Council who knows... "need to know only" and all that...
I'm more of the opinion that instead of "losing" knowledge re DR, they've deliberately separated themselves from it for some odd reason. There hasn't been a singular Warden in a long time because they haven't wanted there to be.
I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop... but I think the idea might have some merit... I just don't have any good data to base it on.
/sigh
--- End quote ---
Jim has made this (the highlighted point) before. Also, Rashid was almost a contemporary with the original Merlin (due to NN time distortion I believe, he has been around the longest, but isn't necessarily the oldest). Don't forget that information about the island seems to spontaneously disappear from official vanilla data bases, although it is possible there is some White Council or other body conspiring to see that this happens. So yah, this is a need to know thing, that is likely very hush, hush otherwise, or at least the Warden position might be.
Minor Cold Case info: There is a snippet in Cold Case where we find out there is some, generally widely wizardly known information that Harry is totally ignorant of because it is customarily only discussed at the tail end of the established apprenticeship program and he skipped the apprenticeship program all together.
So it is really tough for us to gage how much of this is generally unknown, and how much is widely known, but is unknown to Harry and thus to us. It could be that everybody knows that the "warden's" legacy is that there originally was "one" Warden, and the organization came to be to emulate the original or something, but since Harry is such an untrusted, uneducated outsider, he was ignorant of that, and had to be told by Demonreach. Jim is kind of limited in how information is disseminated to us the readers, and this isn't helped by the fact that some of this information is deliberately being held from us until the appropriate time (if ever) for dramatic effects.
Lawgiver:
My only question about the whole thing is... why would the WC separate itself from DR? Going from a single Warden, with all the power/potential DR represents, to multiple wardens of far lesser potential (though greater range of influence/activity) seems like a very important step. I can hardly image what exigencies prompted them to it.
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