The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Current DR wardens
Lawgiver:
--- Quote from: Serack on April 11, 2016, 03:10:04 PM ---It is my opinion that when Harry descends down all those steps and enters the chamber down at the bottom, he has gone down the rabbit hole and in most respects *is* on the NN side of Demonreach.
I say in most respects because Demonreach was created and exists on a dimensional level that Harry has a hard time experiencing, so when he's down there his experience is kinda skimming the surface of a pond of what is actually there NN wise without necessarily getting wet.
I haven't followed this conversation closely, but let me share a little more of my opinion of who and what a capital "W" Warden is and why it is significant. As with most of my theorizing over the past few years, this is heavily influenced by my concepts of overall DF cosmology, and the mortal experience's position in and influence over that cosmology.
The entirety of the Demonreach construct was created on and exists on a level that spans more than just Harry's individual reality and timeline. It is immense and powerful and enduring and ... Lithic. What do I mean by "Lithic?" It exists as is and is non-introspective and unchanging in its purpose, function, and resolve.
But on the Demonreach level of the big picture, the fabric of Reality has a degree of malleability, and the driver and medium of this malleability is mortals and their free will. For Demonreach to function on this malleable level of existence, it needs a malleability engine of its own. A Warden capital W, with free will who can make decisions that encompass aspects of its purpose that require more malleability, dynamism and introspection than it possesses on its own as a Lithic construct.
It is possible that Demonreach's existence is wide enough that it interfaces with more than one discrete "Capital W Warden" across multiple discrete realities and timelines on the level Harry experiences in such a way that from Harry's and thus our perspective, these interactions happen relatively "simultaneously" and individually. However, I think it is more likely that from the Demonreach perspective, these malleability engines are less discrete and are more of a reality spanning singularity like itself. Sort of.
Which is a really long and arduous way of saying that in my theories there is only one capital "W" DR Warden.
Edit: I'd like to add that I'm really proud of the two analogies of Harry experiences in the NN being like skimming a pond without getting wet (not getting the full depth of the experience, only an aspect of it), and Warden Harry's free will being an "malleability Engine" for the overall Demonreach construct.
--- End quote ---
Interesting concept. Let me see if can simplify it a little? This will probably be a bad analogy but.. what the heck.
DR is a tool; a rather sophisticated one, but a tool nonetheless. It has no "free will" and therefore cannot take many actions independently. It has a certain amount/number of "preprogrammed" functions it can perform, but operation of other possible functions beyond those is out of its control.
Let's say DR is like a chainsaw. This tool cannot determine when to cut, how fast to cut, how deep to cut, etc. It takes a Lumberjack to use it properly. The capital L signifies a free willed individual, not the preprogrammed operations already set up. Any monkey can pick up a chainsaw and cut wood... it takes a Lumberjack, someone knowledgeable and skilled in the use of that tool, to make carvings of horses or castles out of lumber.
Given DR's extremely sensitively dangerous nature, "There can be only one" when it comes to Wardens (as opposed to wardens).
Serack:
When I was considering my theory post during my car drive to work, I was considering the tool/craftsman analogy as well. One of the sticking points though was that Demonreach the tool is so much vaster than something that can be wielded by a craftsman.
It appears to have actions it can take (mostly passive) without free will, and it appears to be on a higher level of existence than the "craftsman/Warden."
Perhaps a better analogy than a tool/craftsman would be an Unmanned Arial Vehicle drone surveillance/weapon system platform and it's operator. I was an enlisted Army Intelligence operator a little over a decade ago when UAVs were just starting to get pushed out to the line units (I literally got out 2 months after my Division got theirs {non weaponized} delivered, and those were disseminated to the brigade level), and I was heavily involved in the command's training involving how these systems were utilized. These are complex systems and there were many aspects of their operation that are automated, not unlike Demonreach. Although I doubt it happens regularly because people like to have their hands on these types of things, and in doing so can generally get higher value intel out of them, my experiences back then implied that these things could do surveillance missions completely automated. However, when it comes time to pull the trigger on one with a weapons system, you better believe there is a person doing the actual operation.
Apparently there is an aspect of this discussion that I didn't address. It seems evident that long ago, among the community of Wizards, there was a "Warden" singular who was responsible for Demonreach. Since that day, the actual duty has apparently fallen into general obscurity, yet in the mean time, the community of Wizards has had a need for militant enforcers of the Laws of Magic, and that body collectively and individually bares the same name. How the Demonreach "Warden" and the enforcer "warden" came to share the same name is lost to us the reader, but it seems Demonreach is aware of the connection, as he acknowledges it. However, since Harry wore the grey cloak for years before he became Demonreach's Warden, and we have seen "wardens" do battle on Demonreach without having similar connections to the island, the meaning and significance of the two terms seem to have become severed from each other.
Phariah:
wonder if the Circle up top that Harry uses to summon Mab was involved. suppose that is part of it's use. summon the being and than entrap them. maybe the last few Warden have not been top rate and it fell to a grp to take up the policing but on a smaller level.
Dashkull:
--- Quote from: Phariah on April 11, 2016, 07:16:30 PM ---wonder if the Circle up top that Harry uses to summon Mab was involved. suppose that is part of it's use. summon the being and than entrap them.
--- End quote ---
That has been a theory i've thrown around before, and I am a big fan of it. One of the questions I had about the prison overall is who was badass enough to actually get all those creatures to Demonreach and trap them there, since the Island itself cannot go out and actively do it. That is where the Warden probably comes in as well. Merlin was badass but even he couldnt routinely whistle up dark gods and subdue them. But that circle, by far the most impressive empowered circle we have heard about in the DV, would go a long way to helping a Warden trap things.
I even pictured a theoretical future scene (for fun) where Harry summons Chauncy (sp) using the circle of beauty and threatening to lock him up forever if he doesnt give out the information Harry needs about his mom. Then Chauncy getting all lippy so Harry throws him in crystal with a very satisfying and spiteful ease and being like "neeeeeeext". Kinda like the scene in Firefly where Malcolm tries to give back the money he got for doing the train job when he refused to do the job and kicks the minion into Serenity's engine intake. The next guy is VERY willing to take Mal's offer after seeing that.
kazimmoinuddin:
While they could summon, the powerful entities potentially ignore the summons. The power of the island, and the darkness of the power, could be enough force and affinity allow for no summon to be unanswered. It is one thing for a creature to be summoned, it is another for them to be bound. So once brought to the island, the island and warden would be forced to fight. Admitted on the island, the warden has access to great power, but fighting well worth beings will allays be tricky.
If summoned, would they only be brought to the surface or into the well? It does not seem secure to bring an unbound prisoner into the cell block.
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