The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
The Fourth Holy Sword
magnusth:
Well, I don't think there's a fourth sword, but if there is, I'd think i'd be Uriel's. It doesn't seem like raphael, michael or gabriel to have a hidden, secret, think; that's more uriel's style. If i had to connect him directly with any artifact, it'd be the lance, though. Why? Well, because uriel is the doer of bad but nessecary thing. He was the one who smote sodom, killed the first-born of egypt, ect. ect. He's the one who acts in secret, does things which seem bad, but for the greater good. Killing the Christ seems to fit into this mold. It's not nice, certainly, but it was merciful to end his pain and he needed to die as a sacrifice, a lamb of god. So if someone forced my hand, I'd say uriel was associated with the spear of destiny.
However, i think that's the wrong paradigm. While some arch-angels might have a greater responsibility than others, I think that all the swords are essentially under uriel's purview. Why? two reasons. First, there's the quote in ghost story where Uriel comments that when the other side circumvents free will, it is his job to step in with equal power to balance the scales. Secondly, there's the quote from Skin Game where he talks about something being expressed under "his purview," in the context of a change to the sword. This suggests to me that the job of uriel is to protect free will and the expression thereof, which lines him up with the overarching purpose of the swords, to free people of the influence of fallen Angels. That said, other archangels may be involved during specific expression's of the swords's power and faith - Gabriel might have been the one pronouncing judgement allmighty on the LoONs, for example - but i think Uriel is the overarching custodian of the swords.
Eldest Gruff:
--- Quote from: magnusth on April 17, 2015, 11:53:02 PM ---Well, I don't think there's a fourth sword, but if there is, I'd think i'd be Uriel's. It doesn't seem like raphael, michael or gabriel to have a hidden, secret, think; that's more uriel's style. If i had to connect him directly with any artifact, it'd be the lance, though. Why? Well, because uriel is the doer of bad but nessecary thing. He was the one who smote sodom, killed the first-born of egypt, ect. ect. He's the one who acts in secret, does things which seem bad, but for the greater good. Killing the Christ seems to fit into this mold. It's not nice, certainly, but it was merciful to end his pain and he needed to die as a sacrifice, a lamb of god. So if someone forced my hand, I'd say uriel was associated with the spear of destiny.
However, i think that's the wrong paradigm. While some arch-angels might have a greater responsibility than others, I think that all the swords are essentially under uriel's purview. Why? two reasons. First, there's the quote in ghost story where Uriel comments that when the other side circumvents free will, it is his job to step in with equal power to balance the scales. Secondly, there's the quote from Skin Game where he talks about something being expressed under "his purview," in the context of a change to the sword. This suggests to me that the job of uriel is to protect free will and the expression thereof, which lines him up with the overarching purpose of the swords, to free people of the influence of fallen Angels. That said, other archangels may be involved during specific expression's of the swords's power and faith - Gabriel might have been the one pronouncing judgement allmighty on the LoONs, for example - but i think Uriel is the overarching custodian of the swords.
--- End quote ---
I would have to disagree that Uriel was the one wielding the Spear to kill Christ. The whole ordeal for Jesus would have had to be free willed mortals running the show for any of it to matter or give significance to the events. An angel wouldn't have been able to step in on their own, and seeing as how the whole point was suffering and dying for our sins...I doubt an angel would have been sent to intervene in any way.
As to the swords I've made allowances that influence or sponsorship might be passed around between all the angels certainly. But in addition to the likelihood that Gabriel was the one speaking thru Murphy, MichaelAA was the one who gifted Esperacchius to Sanya, not Uriel. So my guess is they are all custodians of a sword, with room to interchange because as angels it makes sense that the swords are ALL their responsibilities on some level. But one angel being responsible for them all? Nah.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: magnusth on April 17, 2015, 11:53:02 PM ---Well, I don't think there's a fourth sword, but if there is, I'd think i'd be Uriel's. It doesn't seem like raphael, michael or gabriel to have a hidden, secret, think; that's more uriel's style. If i had to connect him directly with any artifact, it'd be the lance, though. Why? Well, because uriel is the doer of bad but nessecary thing. He was the one who smote sodom, killed the first-born of egypt, ect. ect. He's the one who acts in secret, does things which seem bad, but for the greater good. Killing the Christ seems to fit into this mold. It's not nice, certainly, but it was merciful to end his pain and he needed to die as a sacrifice, a lamb of god. So if someone forced my hand, I'd say uriel was associated with the spear of destiny.
However, i think that's the wrong paradigm. While some arch-angels might have a greater responsibility than others, I think that all the swords are essentially under uriel's purview. Why? two reasons. First, there's the quote in ghost story where Uriel comments that when the other side circumvents free will, it is his job to step in with equal power to balance the scales. Secondly, there's the quote from Skin Game where he talks about something being expressed under "his purview," in the context of a change to the sword. This suggests to me that the job of uriel is to protect free will and the expression thereof, which lines him up with the overarching purpose of the swords, to free people of the influence of fallen Angels. That said, other archangels may be involved during specific expression's of the swords's power and faith - Gabriel might have been the one pronouncing judgement allmighty on the LoONs, for example - but i think Uriel is the overarching custodian of the swords.
--- End quote ---
The swords could all be under one angel, but it doesn't really fit with what we know.
- Michael the Archangel gave Sanya his sword, Esperacchius. Why would he be involved if it's Uriel's show?
- It certainly seemed like Gabriel that was trumpeting through Murphy when she wielded Fidelacchius as it filled the area with light. It matches Mab's description of him walking "in a chorus of light".
- Michael seemed personally familiar with Uriel, having been unsurprised by his appearance in SKIN GAME. It seemed like they'd talked before.
On the flip side of "sponsorship"
- Michael's house has a safe room with work by Raphael or his lieutenants. That might imply that Michael and Amorracchius are associated with that sword.
- Uriel's comment about being surprised that Fidelacchius took on that specific form of faith under his purview might indicate that he's associated with that sword.
- Esperacchius seems decidedly under MichaelAA's purview, as he gave it out.
Then again, maybe the swords have no connection to the angels at all. But it seems possible.
Jcarlson171:
First I really like the theory
My several cents
-lucy probably doesnt have a sword running around because Im pretty sure that would upset the balance since he got thirty coins when this was going down
-If we are assigning archangels to swords because nails then we probably need to assign one to the spear, shroud, crown, and cup because they all had Christs blood
-the Swords level the playing field between their wielder and the current threat I believe that not only Harry says this but there is a WOJ IIRC so variable power is expected since entire red court >>> lots of hobgoblins on threat meter
- Cortana could be a weapon kept in hades vault for the instances of really needing it new defender of the gate qualifies explaining why it disappears after hastings since they dont really need a sword of endurance normally (My WAG this sword might allow one person to hold the gate for a time as a new guardian ascends to power)
Hofner1962:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on April 18, 2015, 12:11:57 AM ---On the flip side of "sponsorship"
- Michael's house has a safe room with work by Raphael or his lieutenants. That might imply that Michael and Amorracchius are associated with that sword.
--- End quote ---
Where is this mentioned and if it is Raphael how does this fit with Raphael being Mac with his mantle gone walkabout?
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