The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Team UMO: a theory, for reference purposes
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Tami Seven on March 12, 2014, 09:09:22 PM ---I like this idea, in general. Not sure why Lord Raith was given more of a role than anyone else.
--- End quote ---
I'd say that she had to go to someone who was not part of the White Council, and guess that he was the most plausible alternative compared to, say, the Red Court.
--- Quote ---I do understand why he would get greedy, power hungry, and turn against the others.
--- End quote ---
I have no strong position on that; my own feeling is that he more likely changed plan when the meeting we heard about in Changes failed, but I do not have anything to argue that from.
--- Quote --- Not sure if he was trying to keep Maggie from having a Starborn child, or if he wanted to be the father of her Starborn child.
--- End quote ---
Oh, neither; I am positing that he wanted her to have the Starborn child according to the recipe, but to bring it up as a weapon for himself rather than to protect all of reality.
Tami Seven:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 13, 2014, 12:05:04 AM ---I'd say that she had to go to someone who was not part of the White Council, and guess that he was the most plausible alternative compared to, say, the Red Court.
I have no strong position on that; my own feeling is that he more likely changed plan when the meeting we heard about in Changes failed, but I do not have anything to argue that from.
Oh, neither; I am positing that he wanted her to have the Starborn child according to the recipe, but to bring it up as a weapon for himself rather than to protect all of reality.
--- End quote ---
That last part doesn't make sense, only in that apparently the recipe for a Starborn involved a man more like Malcolm. So...when Maggie ran away to find him, LR killed her. Admittedly just as she was giving birth to her Starborn child. Why did LR keep her for 6 years? Why didn't he work with her to make sure she had her Starborn child as per the recipe? Whatever that recipe is. And why did he put her life at risk by having a child with her (someone Maggie's age, there is always a risk that a pregnancy could have complications. Unlikely, but not impossible. )
Tami Seven:
I've had some theories of my own in the past, but in light of this one, which I find very interesting, I see a conflict. If LR wanted Maggie to have a Starborn, then Thomas should never have been born. Unless LR was convinced that he would be a suitable father for this child. But considering that Thomas wasn't born anywhere near the auspicious date to make a Starborn, I question LR's intentions.
knnn:
Hey Neuro great job in putting all these ideas into a very clear and organized format.
My thoughts:
1) Even if UMO aren't actually working hand in hand in the traditional sense, the fact that each of them has omniscient-level omniscience, and that they are all presumably working against Outsiders means that they must be "sharing future threads".
2) WoJ:
--- Quote ---Q: How/when did Harry find out Lea is his godmother? Is Lea Thomas’s godmother, too?
A: Lea was around when Harry was in middle school, although he didn’t know who she was. She was just a lady who sometimes did nice things for him. He found out who she is after he became Justin’s apprentice. Lea is not Thomas’s godmother
--- End quote ---
Not sure how what this brings to bear on the theory, but worth mentioning.
3) We are told (end of SmF) that the only way Uriel could give Harry Soulfire is if Hell broke the rules first. It is not impossible that UMO manipulated the Denarians into making a play for Ivy just so Harry could get Soulfire (and possibly have a first meeting with Demonreach).
4) I think we have evidence that a Starborn is a double-edged (or possibly multi-edged) sword from the memory of the HHWB encounter in GS. Consider that HHWB seems to be toying with Harry. I submit that if a Starborn had no use for Outsiders, HHWB would have simply killed him and called it a day.
5) Re: Thousand years and previous starborns, there's the following WoJ:
--- Quote ---You said the Winter, rather, Knights’ mantles change fairly often? How often do the Ladies’, Queens’ and Mothers’ mantles change?
Uh, the Ladies, Queens and Mothers, their mantles change very, very, very rarely in general. I mean, Mab’s been there for better than 1,000 years. And Maeve’s been there….there was a Winter Lady before Maeve, uh, in Mab’s time. And she didn’t fare so well the last time a Starborn was running around. And so….Mab and Maeve, um, **unintelligible**, I leave things here, don’t miss ‘em. I love to drop teases and hints and walk away smiling, but anyway. They don’t change very often at all. The Knights’ mantles change, like, constantly. Most Knights are Knights who pick up a sword for a night. And then they’re done. It’s just some random Joe, who happens to be a decent guy, and it’s like, “Look, magical sword, horrible danger! Do something!”. **unintelligible** Just because you’re a great guy doesn’t mean you’re smart enough to survive an encounter with demons, for example. And we’ll see a bit more of that in the next book, too.
--- End quote ---
So apparently, there *was* a previous Starborn during Mab's tenure.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Tami Seven on March 13, 2014, 12:13:02 AM ---That last part doesn't make sense, only in that apparently the recipe for a Starborn involved a man more like Malcolm. So...when Maggie ran away to find him, LR killed her. Admittedly just as she was giving birth to her Starborn child. Why did LR keep her for 6 years? Why didn't he work with her to make sure she had her Starborn child as per the recipe? Whatever that recipe is. And why did he put her life at risk by having a child with her (someone Maggie's age, there is always a risk that a pregnancy could have complications. Unlikely, but not impossible. )
--- End quote ---
Personally, I am not 100% convinced that it was really Lord Raith who killed Maggie Sr. Sure, Ebenezer believes it, but then he may well be blinded by his prejudices -- automatically blaming the "drug dealing scum of a boyfriend" for her death. We don't really know recipe is required for birthing a Starborn, but the fact that Elaine (known potential per WoJ) is also an orphan suggests to me that we can't rule out death during childbirth as being one of the ingredients.
1) IMHO it is not impossible that Maggie killed herself deliberately to create a Starborn.
2) It is even possible that the mother needs to die with an entropy curse in order to create a Starborn (HHWB-Entropy curse connection in Blood Rites). Maggie could well have done this to herself.
3) Note also that technically it was Maggie's Death Curse that killed her.
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