The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Proof that Time Travel Harry did not fix Little Chicago?? (CD Spoilers)
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Cenphx on February 13, 2013, 05:55:33 PM ---@Griffyn--son of a (expletive expletive expletive). You're right. About 2 seconds after I got the reasoning of your argument about the energy at DR being an interaction with its wards I forgot it when replying to Hollorr. Since I do not currently have dementia, my only excuse is that the temporal echoes thing from an altered timeline makes so much intuitive sense to me it creeps back in when it shouldnt. My bad.
--- End quote ---
Honestly, my comment was more towards of motorade, who I think read the OP and then replied with stuff we'd already covered. It made my head swim, since we're talking about similar stuff on two threads, and now we're repeating the same stuff within threads.
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on February 13, 2013, 02:29:30 PM ---I understand your logic, but its circular. Harry doesn't have to fix it because harry fixed it but doesn't have to fix it because he fixed it...
--- End quote ---
Um... in reply, mostly what Neuro said.
I see your issue with free will. You're saying that if Merlin created Demonreach using a temporal bridge that spanned 5 times, the first of which may have occurred prior to his birth, and by reasoning the temporal bridge must occur because it already has occurred, it's taking away Merlin's free will to chose whether or not to do it when he sets out to do it.
But it's fairly easy for free will to be subverted in the Dresdenverse. All it would take would be a little honesty.
--- Quote ---Odin: Hey, Merl.
Merlin: I told you, don't call me that.
Odin: Okay Lin.
Merlin: <sigh> What?
Odin: You have to create a prison.
Merlin: I have to?
Odin: Yup.
Merlin: I don't have to do anything, you cooky Norse cyclops.
Odin: Okay.
Merlin: ... okay?
Odin: Yup. Okay.
Merlin: ... that's it?
Odin: Exactly.
Merlin: ... what?
Odin: If you don't want to do it, then that's it. That the End of it.
Merlin: End of what?
Odin: The end of Everything. You. Me. Earth. Time. Reality.
Merlin: Um... what?
Odin: Yeah, we needed that prison to be created millennia ago by you, so that bad guys could be imprisoned, so that reality could continue to exist.
Merlin: Oh.
Odin: But, since you won't, then you wouldn't have, so you haven't, so I guess everything's over.
Merlin: <looks around> ... But we're still here.
Odin: <looks around> Huh... I guess you're right.
Merlin: So what does that mean?
Odin: It means you're going to make the damn prison, Merl.
Merlin: <sigh> This is why I hate my life sometimes.
Odin: Great. How do you feel about crystals?
--- End quote ---
Cenphx:
Thinking about this some more, I dont think what Griffyn proposes even creates a close time loop or the paradox it causes. If Now Harry does the time folding thing, he joins current time with a specifc moment in PG. Then it becomes one moment, neither past or future. The Harry of that momeng fixes LC. Its not that Harry always fixes LC so therefore he must, but the Harry of that joined moment fixes it. It just so happens that the moment is made up of two ribbons of time. But no time is altered, it is just pulled together. The lcosed time loop paradox happens only if you are considering time as one long unfolded ribbon where Harry moves into the past to fix LC there rather than pulling time to him in the now and fixing it here. Im not sure if this makes matters any more clear to anyone else, but its definitely more clear to me. Assuming thats what Griffyn meant.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Cenphx on February 13, 2013, 05:55:33 PM ---@Griffyn--son of a (expletive expletive expletive). You're right. About 2 seconds after I got the reasoning of your argument about the energy at DR being an interaction with its wards I forgot it when replying to Hollorr. Since I do not currently have dementia, my only excuse is that the temporal echoes thing from an altered timeline makes so much intuitive sense to me it creeps back in when it shouldnt. My bad.
--- End quote ---
Are different versions of you posting from different timelines in the same thread ?
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Ms Duck on February 13, 2013, 06:17:31 PM ---@Neuro- My point is that in a universe where free will does exist, every time you travel back in time it resets the clock- and now people have the options to make all new decisions.
--- End quote ---
I'm still not seeing why it resets the clock except for the you who has travelled into the past and anyone you directly affect. That people can make free choices in their present doesn't mean that once that choice has been made it is subsequently fluid, at least by my reading of Odin's comment about temporal inertia. (Which in a universe with time-travel implies that the broad strokes of the future are not very mutable, save by focused and significant choice, but that's pretty much what Uriel's been implying when talking about most people not exercising free will very often.)
Cenphx:
@ neurovore - wow. That explanation is waaaaay cooler than I forgot. Using 'Past Cenphx was intruding on the current timeline' will probably only work for me in time travel thread, though.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version